Has anybody here been watching the Showtime series, The Borgias? I borrowed the first season on DVD from my public library, and I've been enjoying it, despite some painful scenes to watch.

Painful -- and funny -- like the scene from Episode 8 ("The Art of War"), which I watched tonight. Everyone is fleeing Rome before the invading French army arrives, and someone cries out in anger: "You're all like lemmings running to your doom!!"

Besides the fact that lemmings are arctic rodents and 15th century Italians might not be all that familiar with them, the myth about lemmings committing suicide started in the 1950s. The scriptwriter should've been lashed for that like an Italian lord's stableboy.

But other than the occasional anachronistic dialogue, the costumes and sets are quite well done, and the storyline is interesting -- and follows actual history a lot closer than Showtime's The Tudors did.

I'm wondering whether they'll depict Lucrezia Borgia as having been maligned in history, or whether they'll make her out to be the wicked temptress/poisoner that it was claimed she was. So far, the only wicked thing she's done in this series is cheat on her abusive husband by having a secret affair with the stableboy.

-- Nephele

If it's just a TV show version of a "Queen Movie", then I'll pass.

In order to better explain what a "Queen Movie" is, here is the Queen Movie Drinking Game:

*drink if the movie takes place in either the 1700s or the 1800s

*drink if the main source of conflict is that the queen can't have any sons (only daughters)

*drink if there's a war or a revolution in the country where the movie takes place, but despite that the main conflict is still the fact that the queen can't have any male sons

*drink if the main villain is a member of the royal court who conspires against her

*drink if the queen has a night of loving, passionate sex after she meets her future husband

*drink if the queen and her husband have rough, messy and unpleasant sex after he discovers that she can't have male sons

*drink if the queen has a sister, a friend, a mother, an aunt or even an entire parallel family that either the husband or the villain has her/them killed/deported

*drink if the queen never does any real governing, because her not being able to have any male sons is apparently more important than that.

*drink if everyone praises the queen for being fair and just even though she never does any real governing. If people in real life also praise the historical figure that the queen in the movie represents, chug the whole bottle.

*drink when there's a lunch/dinner/breakfast scene that goes awry when the subject of the queen being unable to have any male sons comes up.

*drink if the queen was a humble peasant before actually becoming queen.

*drink if the movie ends without the queen actually fathering any male sons.

*finally, drink if the movie ends with a narration cap informing us of what happened to the queen in real life.

...however, if this show is nothing like a Queen Movie, I may give it a chance.

Haha! I take a double swig when I hear bad lines like: "My hips are round and well apart. Such women, they say, have sons." (10 points to whoever can name the queen who uttered that movie line.)

No, The Borgias isn't that bad. And it's only somewhat predictable if you already know the history of the family's doings, as the series seems to be following that pretty closely.

There is a lot of debate over whether the Lucrezia Borgia of history was really as bad as people said she was, same as how people are today debating how Elizabeth Bathory may have been unfairly maligned. History notoriously doesn't treat strong women very kindly.

-- Nephele

Or, like the bracelet says, "Well-behaved women seldom make history."

The series sounds interesting. I'll check it out.

"Well-behaved women seldom make history." -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, Professor of History, Harvard University.

Great quote! Ledge, let us know what you think of the series when you see it.

-- Nephele

I like it! Considering it's created by Neil Jordan, I'm not suprised...all his films are so wonderfully lush!

So is the show sort of like "The Tudors" on BBC america? Would like to watch but my dad no longer has HBO or showtime. I kind of like Renaissance history so it would be probably be worth checking out. Thats if it's not to political and mostly talking and all.

I've been meaning at some point to check it out. My brother in law is an executive producer for the series, and he was heavily involved with one called the Tudors also. I guess the same Production company did both? I should know more but the problem is getting over the fact my brother in law is an executive producer. I'm a shift worker. Fml.