I've read about that before. The concept of only One God, though it may seem easy today, was very hard to grasp in a very polytheistic world. It took a very LONG time before Judaism or even Christianity was able to get rid of their gods and (most espeically) their goddess. The struggle to end that is barely, if at all described in the Bible. I remember seeing a documentary about a goddess who was known as Yahwah's consort, but through the ages, and the church who disliked women, her name was forged out of anything regarding Christianity to become male dominant. They felt if God is so power (the own and only) he wouldn't need a consort.

That has always been monotheism's downfall, I think. The need for only one powerful god, instead of at least two. Humanity thrives on relationships and partnerships and community. It would make since that the gods we create do as well. To only have one God(dess) (to me) feels as if they (the god and goddess) got not only a divorce but a restraining order and one got full custody and the only way for the other one to see its creation is if said creation seeks them out.... To me, it just makes sense to have at least two. A mother and a father. A community, basically.

I think, in some ways, our ancient ancestors felt the same, which was why following only one male god and forsaking his consort and other parts were so difficult for them.

You've stolen the words from my mouth, Midieval Fantasy.

I always find it amusing that so many gods and goddesses in monotheistic religions seem to be human-like physiologically... Yet they lack the socialization and dynamic relationships that are so crucial to human life and society.

Humans are social creatures. We thrive on relationships. Why do we not ascribe those attributes to higher powers, to spirits, gods, and goddesses? Is it supposed to remind us mortals of our own shortcomings, to demonstrate the difference between an average Joe and a god?

Good question. I think it depends on exactly what you believe as to the look of the gods and their characteristics. For example, Egypt was known for having gods which were animal like in appearance. As for personality, I do not exactly agree with you.

In today's world we see the gods as being these great beings, all powerful, all knowing, and perfect. In my line of thinking- they are not. The gods, at the end of the day are honestly whatever we make them to be because the gods are the manifestation of the human mind to understand what cannot be understood.

Now am I saying that the gods don't exist. No. I believe in the gods. However, I also believe we create them. The power behind the gods was always there and always will be, we just give them names, and forms, and personalities to explain the world and energies around us.

The energies are there and so they shall remain. It is how we understand these energies that creates our perceptions of the gods, if that makes any sense.

Back in Ancient Greece, the gods were no better than mortals. They made mistakes. They were jealous, hateful, lusty, spiteful, joyous, etc...and they acted on their emotions. The Greek gods were very much human on a divine level. So it depends I guess on the pantheon.

Today, the gods are not so much human-like as they are divine, understanding, and perfect. I think we want our gods to be that way because it gives us something to aspire to. To motivate us to be better by becoming like the gods we idolize.

In my way of thinking, the gods are there. They are not meant to intervene on your behalf. They are not your go-to-guy when shit in your life goes wrong. they are not going to fix your life and bring you happiness. You have to do it all yourself. But they are there to listen and give balance to the universe. Sure they can intervene, but they are very apt at just watching and letting you learn all you can and all you need to. The gods are nature, the natural universe. I am a part of that, therefore they are a part of me. I am divine in my own right and all things I can accomplish myself. I may pray to the gods for help every once in a while, but for the most part, I revere them as just being there and i thank them for the balance that they provide.


So basically, the gods you worship and their appearance or personality, at the end of the day I guess all that matter is what you personally believe and how you feel about them based on research and the workings of your own soul. After all, it is often not a coincidence that the gods believe all the same things you do.

Hell, in a way- no matter what you believe - there's a god for that.

Of course, those are my opinions.

I would have replied, but, yet again you took the words right out of my mouth, Midi

Aww, shucks, Minty.

I'd still like to hear your thoughts anyway. I learn so much from you!

"In the beginning, Man created God
In the image of Man created he him
And Man gave unto God a multitude of names,
That he might be Lord of all the earth…
When it was suited to Man..."

- Liner Notes to "Aqualung", Jethro Tull, 1971

I was just talking to a friend about the belief of Asherah being Yahweh's consort, and he said: "That was just a rumor to cover up that God is gay."

I also told him that, at the Discovery Times Square exhibit, they said that these statuettes of Asherah were the most likely reason for the ancient Israelites having the commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods..." And my friend said: "And now the GOP has circumvented that by worshipping the 1%."

-- Nephele

That is too funny, Nephele. I like this friend of yours.

Yah, I've known him for years. He lives in Mississippi and he's a lot like Daryl Dixon in The Walking Dead. Only funny.

Sorry for the thread drift!

-- Nephele

No need to apologize, Nephele. I enjoy your posts here! I wish I could go see that exhibit, it sounds amazing!

Agreed.

Agreed again I believe that all the gods that have ever existed still do, they do not stop being gods, they just stop being worshipped by humanity.



I guess this is the very reason that I feel so closely drawn to the Greek Pantheon... they have that 'human' touch that deities like the Judeo/Christian God don't have. To my thinking, if humanity is created in the image of a god then that god either has to be similar to us or else that god did a fairly bad job To then say that we are to be punished for just being the way we were created to be... that seriously confuses me (though agreed, it doesn't take much to confuse me most of the time ).



Agreed again... and I think that is the problem. As human beings there is no possible way we could emulate the 'perfect' god/s and in trying to do so we just end up making ourselves feel generally miserable as we never feel 'good enough' and are wracked with guilt and self-loathing (which is not very healthy). I find it very difficult to identify with a being that is purported to be the very epitome of all the things I am not, and that is why I think I am destined to always remain a fairly eclectic pagan... I do not flourish in situations where I have to conform to one line of thinking and eventually I just lose patience and start searching for something more rewarding to my soul.
If I am constantly bombarded with rules and lists of 'sins' I begin to crack under the pressure of always striving to be someone that I am not. Two words... screw that! I have never felt that way about my Goddess, ever... I know that She accepts me and does not wish to change me on a basic level, but She is always proud of me when I choose to change on a deeper level (although She does not intervene to make it so). Then again, my Goddess is a mother to fifty daughters so I'm guessing that She fully understands kids


Yet again, agreed (seriously, Midi, get out of my BRAIN!!)

I often pray to my Goddess for strength and for guidance, but I do not expect Her to do things for me... I know that I am perfectly capable of doing that for myself... I see my requests as purely a mental stimulus that usually gets me thinking about the problem in a different way and I find the answer (usually when I wake up).

That is another reason that I find a God without a Goddess seriously out of whack... everything in life has that duality, night and day, up and down, light and dark, male and female... yet there is just meant to be a God? How can that be? I don't understand that at all. I've heard it said that God is meant to not be male, but genderless, but that doesn't really make sense to me.


This reminds me of a quote by Anne Lemott “You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

My Goddess is mine, and I don't ask that people share Her with me... all I ask is that I am left in peace to worship and revere Her in my own way and in my own time. I may not have a personal God yet, but I do believe that deity has that necessary duality of both male and female (though if pushed, the God I feel closest to would be Pan... He was also a consort of my Goddess and they both appeared to me in a pathworking I did years ago before I even knew that They both existed!) That is the henotheist in me... I acknowledge all gods, yet personally worship one (at present).


And mine... now, about the small business of returning my brain, Midi? You seem to have it over there and I need it back (although there's no rush ).

onderful post, Minty! I'd give you back your brain, but after my last post, scientists came and took it for experimentation. Don't tell them I have a share....

Minty, there was something that you said that I wanted to touch on.



I agree with this...to a point. I have never understood why people feel a need for a one gender only god(dess). It doesn't make sense to me. To worship only a goddess seems off balance and to worship only a god seems off balance. And you know how I am about balance! There are masculine and feminine aspects in everyone and those aspects should be celebrated.

I do however, see the Divine, the All as being genderless. This is the force, the energy that I believe I will eventually merge with when all my lives have been lived and I have nothing left to learn. This is the force from with the God and Goddess and all their aspects come from, in my beliefs.

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On another subject/ rant:

I am so pissed off over the grief I've been getting lately about my spirituality. There is a student in my class who just will not give me a break. He calls me a hypocrite and hateful because I mentioned once that I didn't particularly believe I'd get along well on a personal level with a girl in our last class because she was a hardcore conservative Christian and her life was religion and her views, same as myself and we were just so polar that i wasn't sure how well we'd get along. I said that because he wanted the three of us to work and hang out together.

I didn't say I hated Christianity, but I mention sort of dislike for anything Christian and he gets mad at me. I think I should be allowed my opinions same as anyone. I don't hate Christianity, but it's no secret that I hold some resentment and that I can be uncomfortable around Christians and can feel defensive about my beliefs around them.

What does he expect? He doesn't understand to be a part of a minority belief system. He doesn't have Hindus, Buddhists, Islamics, Satanists, Pagans, etc...trying to convert and change his believe at every turn. He doesn't constantly have people telling him he's wrong.

I know yesterday was quite annoying and I was ready to go into the Pagan Closet. My sister made a post on facebook which said that 'Jesus died for you, for you're sins. 97% of you won't care, but 3% will care and repost."

Now before I continue...I thought my sister (the one I'm still talking to) knew I was Pagan. So I made the comment (perhaps unwisely) that I was part of the 97% that didn't care. Well my classmate was being nosy and read the post I made to my sister's facebook page. He was brutal to me. And I mean brutal. I don’t get how others can joke and say ad shit about other religions with no problems, but I do it with Christianity and suddenly I’m evil and a hypocrite and hateful.

He said he didn’t understand how I don’t care the Jesus died. That is not what I said. I said I didn’t care that he died for me and my sins so I could go to heaven because in my mind- he didn’t. It’s sad he died and I care that a great religious leader died, but I don’t care about all the other shit tagged on it. In truth, I’m not even sure how much I care that he died. All people die. I guess I care about his death as much as I care about Buddha’s death. People die. It’s sad, but we learned from them- I wasn’t alive at the time and I knew their physical bodies weren’t going to last forever. Care about the message, love the message, don’t cry and weep and beat yourself up that a religious leader died. They die. It is what it is.

Needless to say, he did not like that answer.

Anyway, my sister emailed me this morning. Apparently she didn’t know. I don’t understand how she didn’t know. Everyone knows. I post about it a lot, its listed as my religion on facebook…I mean really? She told me that by denying Christianity I was forsaking and mocking our mother’s memory and that of our baby brother who died at birth. Really? What the fuck?

I don’t tell others which religion they should be. I don’t tell others what spiritual path to follow. I think I should be allowed that same courtesy. Family should accept everything you are, not scorn you for it. I think, I see my pagan friends, my goth friends to be more of my family than my family is.

I love gnet.

I would love to hear the explanation of how by not being a Christian you are forsaking your mother's memory. I'm sure it would be very Christo-centric.

On a side note, I have discovered over the years that many "hard core" Christians are the first to invoke freedom of religion for themselves, but the last to extend it to others.

Oh Midi... I'm so sorry that this is happening to you

The douchebag at college needs to back the hell off and show some respect for your religious freedom... and I 100% agree with lostindreaming... I've noticed also that is always those that have hardcore Christian beliefs that attack others for their beliefs yet scream "oppression!" when someone has the temerity to do the same to them! Such double standards drive me crazy It reminds me of this chart.

Facebook is Facebook and as each page is personal you have the right to type whatever you like as long as it doesn't violate their terms and conditions... I once had a Calvanist pastor scold me for using the f-word on my own wall! He told me that unless I moderated my language he would be forced to un-friend me... I replied to him that as the profile and status updates were my own he could get lost, and I promptly removed him from my friends list! This from the very same man that thought it was a good laugh to make jokes about Michael Jackson's death and to become rude and aggressive and call a woman "an evil witch" during an argument

This is one of the reasons I love living in this country... there is seldom any kind of "bible-belt reactions" to religion here... if anything I seem to get the reverse in that I get hassle from atheists that can't believe I'm stupid enough to want deities. I guess it's the flip side of the same coin... but I can tell the atheists to go to hell and keep their noses out of my f@#king business

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To return to your comment, Midi... I also believe in a genderless "power" of some kind, too. As this is far too huge for me to get my head around properly I attribute all the deities that have ever existed to it. I believe that they all get their power from the same place, but I also think that all gods are also separate entities in their own right (for example I don't see Hecate as the same goddess as Athena, but I think they get their power from the same place). I also believe that this power exists without the need to attach deities to it, I just understand it more if I do (that, however, is my personal choice and is not applicable to, or for, everyone).

Point out that by Christian logic your dead baby brother died in a state of original sin, never repented and is thus in hell, and you prefer to think of him as not in hell, thus Gaia/Moon/Sky Pixie/whatever.