I love the fashion and gagetry of steampunk (basically the look and idealism of it) but I have never read the books or been a 'do it yourself' kind of girl.

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I like Goth because it gives me a chance to be a peace with myself and what I like. Sometimes I do not like it because even within the scene I can feel rather like an outcast at times when I don't know music or read the books, etc...

Yep, I have found that when people start with the "X is dead" it usually means that they know nothing about it, they are unwilling to find out anything about it, and claiming it's "dead" is just a rationale to avoid learning about anything other than their preference.

I think the biggest problem with the goth scene today is that there isn't enough variety in the clubs. A lot of the ones I've been to seem to only play hard industrial, aggrotech, and some futurepop. I don't hear enough gothic rock, deathrock, post-punk, ethereal, or darkwave music. Granted I do like a lot of the ebm/industrial/cybergoth stuff, but it was bands like dead can dance, bauhaus, and the sisters that attracted me to the goth scene in the first place. I believe a good club dj should cater to EVERYONE in the goth culture, not just the cyber-raver kids or just the old-school goths.

Guys.... you know the whole "Goth is dead" thing is a joke dating back to 1979 right?

Which is why I just smirk and move on at that comment.

Sounds like a perfume scent to me (unless it is already).

That seems to be a problem in a lot of scenes. Punk and hardcore shows, for example, up through the 90s, featured a solid variety of styles. Now, and this goes for most genres, everything has become segregated and each scene is becoming ever more insular and incestuous, stifling any real innovation or growth and promoting stagnation.

I haven't gone to any club yet (I'm too young) but if I do I hope there will be some variety in what they play.

“Goth doesn’t exist.”

- Daniel Ashe, 12/8/2005

ITT is win.

What I witnessed personally was sort of the other way around. For all the rhetoric which I've heard about the big, bad elders kicking the electro people around, I never saw it. When Electro-dance was brought into the clubs by DJ's in the 1990's (a lot of whom were refugees from the rave/techno scene) Most Goths didn't really complain. Being generally a tolerant bunch, people said "Hey, some of this is kind of cool. It's dancey. No problem, we still hear our stuff too." Then DJ's began to exclude trad-goth. New Goths just coming into the clubs assumed that everything they heard was "goth" music. DJ's defended their actions by claiming that "goth is dead/EBM is the new goth". When Goths complained about no longer having their requests played, Industrial-Dance DJ's and Rivets insulted and berated them. I remember seeing Rivets and cybers literally shoving and kicking Goths on the dance floor. (They shoved a female friend of mine just once.) Many Goths simply stopped going to clubs. Then, DJ's claimed that electro was "what everyone wants to hear". They had created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Friends around the country told me that their scenes followed pretty much the same pattern in the late '90s to early 2000's.

We've got that development in the last decade, but EBM lost Fans because it became to technoid and now it becomes more gothy again. So we have different parties and the most clubs got more than one area. I hink it becomes better and the scene becomes more heterogene. There are much more new faces than a few years ago, and more specials in smaller clubs, which sometimes have the old atmosphere of the eighties. Except of technoid EBM/Industrial I can enjoy every style of what is called gothic. I think it's going upwards, but I'm still missing some innovative sounds, for a new era.

Sure, we totally believe him!

...and I assume that's why deathrock revival happened in the first place.

One thing I personally dislike is that even though we say (a lot) that we are an unconventional subculture,etc..etc..yatta..yatta.. Is that most of us are not.It just gets my goat sometimes because of our .. "ignorance"?.."hipocriticalness"?..Not that posting this is very unconventional either but still..That is my two cents.--Nate--

P.S. I have to agree with Nephele though..I LOVE the do-it-yourself aspect of the goth and steampunk (sub)cultures.