if something is not tangible, any body can make it up...

You know what god looks like?

its a a dragon-bear-lion-zebra, that speaks romanian and lives on the planet gkishakelbela

why... because I just made it up so it must be true...


sorry I dont mean to discredit rene descartes

but just because you "think" its real, does not make it real...



What can you show me, "every culture has a god(s) so that must be true", but then thats when I would have to agree with David Hume, he said that no matter how many times you get something right, there is always room for error, which this kind of contradicts the scientific method, but as you see, it can be applicable...

If you bring me a red apple, and I only see a red apple and thats all I know does that mean green and yellow apples dont are not real? My point taken. I cant disprove that there is not a force, but a god(s) I can, the personalization I can prove wrong, but the force, I cant, no matter how hard I try, AND TRUST ME I HAVE...

Albert to this idea, he said, "fuck newtons laws, Im going to make my own shit" and so he did, that when E=MC2 was made... We have to challenge, even known facts, to prove another... I have to disprove a God to prove that there is a force... its what you have to do to progress... All in the name of humanity, we have to at some point...


Once you start getting into personal stuff, thats when the mind takes control, like sleep, traces and meditation... Its the mind in another mode... Thats psychology, that leaves the realm of physics... The mind is very strong, yet we only use 10% of it, sad but true... We can only imagine what 90% of the rest can do...

I am no one to say you didnt get high in the last drum circle you had (not on drugs, but the drums its self), who the hell knows, maybe you connected with something in the mind. Maybe you were not there, but you where there...

The mind is a very interesting thing...

-- Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:25 pm --




Scientist and Philosophers are the new priest and science is the believe... nicely put ...

Basically you need the same level of faith but more proof, sometimes (besides some physics formulas) but all in all its rather reliable...

I never wrote that the impossibility of disproving a theory automatically makes it real/true. (in reference to your Romanian god)
And I do see your points about personalized god. But...

What makes you think that you're right believing in some force, but people who believe in god(s) are irrational? I myself don't believe in either, although am able to accept the idea of force - but I would never pray, for any reason (and you wrote you did, unless I misunderstood you?), as it makes no sense to me. But there are those who'll reject the existence of force too, because they believe only in "pure" science. And who's right? Who's the one to judge?

For the most part, we can experimentally proove the veracity of science and as long as we're not Albert Einstein, it would be reasonable for everyone, regardless of their other believes, to accept it as true. But there comes a point at which everything dissolves into speculations rather than facts. Of course, you can think Hawking is right. But neither me nor you and I believe not even Hawking can be 100% sure. There are many theories, there are those once believed to be true, proven wrong with time. Not even going into why would you believe one and disregard another... But, I guess, even the best explanation leaves room for something more..
I'm able to accept the fact that there are things far beyond what we (at leat now) can understand and I think you are too (otherwise, define what is this force you believe in). Well, actually, I'm not only able to accept it, I do believe such... things... do exist - and I'm not going to judge at which point it becomes irrational or, in other words, when it's still science and when it's wrong (because every aspect of world, no matter how bizzare, if it's true then it IS science, right?).

And, it's not like what someone believes in is much of an intelligence indicator.


?




No, not really, no. More often than not, the more I think the more I start to contradict myself, and end up with nothing

I liked what you wrote, it was basically what I'd tried to express, but you did it much better (and shorter..)

If you dont believe in a force, you will contradict whole formulas...

Now we've already beyond Newton's first law of motion (as it isn't to its absolute) at the quantum level there are plenty of particles that move entirely of their own accord (but why, and how?), can this be done with no particular force acting on them. And if the big bang arose from a quantum singularity... I think the rest can be thought out...

The term quantum singularity is used to refer to many different phenomena, which often approximately resemble a gravitational singularity in the scientific sense in that they are massive, localized distortions of space and time. The name invokes one of the most fundamental problems remaining in modern physics: the difficulty in merging Einstein's Theory of Relativity (which includes singularities within its models of black holes) and quantum mechanics. In fact, since singularities are infinitely small according to relativity, they are expected to be quantum mechanical by their nature; a theory of quantum gravity would be required to describe this behavior, and no such theory has yet been completed.

Again, what is this force that moved these atoms to create the big bang on the quantum level? I am using formulas, the scientific method, physic books, and a long time of research and contemplation to prove my point. its not like I awoke one morning and said "you know what, there is a force!" it took almost half of my life to come to this realization. Michio Kaku has some really good ideas, besides him being futuristic, you should check him out when he talks about religion and science, he made an actual documentary about it.

As for me praying, its a 50/50% chance that I am connecting with this force, dont see me as crazy to try to pray to some force, see it as me trying to communicate with it. Like the SETI Project, except instead of looking for other intelligent life forms, I am trying to get in touch with the force...

I think I might have to go beyond prayers personally and start using machines (if i only had the funding) and if we really can use this force, it might be put to good use for humanity.

(PS, I do believe the force does encompass both the quantum theory and Isaac's first law, see i'm using David Hume again )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzq66L2NU5g

Ok... people say I should say what I think also on negative occasions, I trust with you I can do it, so:
the sentence in bold would prevent anyone to fulfil the wish expressed in the sentence itself.
If they do think for themselves from that moment on it will sound as if they're not because they are acting as you wish
If they don't they are somehow doing it in that they are not acting as you wish but still not fulfilling your wish because they are not doing it in another way...




I think the true and deep atheist ideology is well expressed in a Bones quote:



which is exactly my way of seing things... to persuade me of the existance of God(s) I need a cause and effect explanation that possibly doesn't have a counter-explanation in science, philosophy, psychology, neuroanatomy.





Take Avatar (the movie), all beings are connected to a sort of general mind that is made of biological memory in the planet's bioelements as trees and animals. Thinking about it I realized it's a theory about earth, because such biological memory is present here too, such higher force would be the electricity running through biological entities and keeping them alive, such electricity could be the all mighty force that generates life on this planet, which would mean believing in a force that confirms scientifical theories of many kinds.
As to preying such force... I would honestly see no point and it'd sound strange to me... why would I prey electricity?



I would suggest reading Germain and his theories about the super-conscious.




I disagree and am going to explain why. Faith as midi said is blind, if your faith sais it's this and this way you have to agree or you're an outcast or worse an heretic, whereas when it comes to science if you find a point of disagreement with the theories you embrace you can simply start your own research and give a contribution to social evolution. Science is not bigot, science is an open field made of research of the causes that give the effects, which means billions of possibilities to be explored to reach an undeniable truth that might not be found now and here but can be found in years or maybe centuries thanks to a single doubt one single person proposed.

Well to...

Aisha, I think you just hit the jackpot...

What would happen if we use this on ourselves? Then wouldn't humanity be programing its self into a powerful race? We need more in deft information about our minds, imagine. This is just skimming the top of this idea.

if humans can manipulate their minds (if they cant see it like this) wouldn't it make the mind powerful? Maybe even have extra sensory, move object with our minds at will?

Its a possibility, we only use 10% of our minds...

Your proposed theory is very plausible...

-- Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:41 am --

I was reading, and I have found that the Hindus and the Shamans have had an idea like this... It is crazy to find out that there are Shamans that come from a long line of traditions that state a ancient sketch of what we are talking about (in an archaic form)...

I give much respect to those who at least try to understand the human mind and its conditions and I think these people are advance for just being a bunch of yak drinking nomads... They know stuff and it makes me think about "how the hell do these people know that"...

And its crazy how some of them call themselves atheist and agnostic when they are shamans at the same time...

Middle Easterners, East Indians, Asians, and Turks have a different ideas when it comes to religion compared to the western world, I am a person with an eastern mind set trying to describe things in a western way... Its not happening ...

If you wonder why I'm not answering, it's the passage about power... it makes me feel like I'd better delete what I've written.
As always, good things can be used to harm...

Thanks to the admins for deleting it...

I love the three Greek Philosophers Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. They are very similar to Zen philosophers such as Hanh. I also like Nietzche just because he was so outrageous and unafraid to speak the truth and make people think. What interests me most in conversations are the concepts of philosophers. I'd love to learn what you think of Plato's cave and of the idea of an unmoved mover. Are we constantly changing or is everything always the same?

http://laceyreah.blogspot.com/

Actually, I'm wondering if "power" is necessarily the best choice of words in SirVigil's post. After all, it's a word I'm not comfortable with either; it has connotations of the use of force used to subjugate the will of another. Instead, I prefer to think it means "unused potential", or even "energy" - although, to be quite fair, I'm not sure even those words express the concept I'm grasping for.

I wonder if any could.

I used the word "power" because what came to mind was "the Matrix" at the time i was writing the post... Not saying that i agree with humanity being a bunch of drones, but if we dont kill our ego our ego will end up killing us...

oh no! I didn't mean you meant it like that, sorry, I meant that your sentence about power made me realize what most people would consider power...

I don't abuse knowledge, but sadly we have people who would in this world...

I think this confrontation would be very fitting in the topic about the girl who silenced the world in 1992 (The Net forum).
Knowledge abuse really sounds to me as something that could have contributed to the world current situation.

An example would be the HAARP program... Its the US government using a primitive form of mind control and weather changing abilities...

It could be used for good, maybe to help people with schizophrenia or some kind of heavy mental disorder and maybe cure them of the problem. As for the weather part of the program, it could be used to deliver rain to countries like Ethiopia and prevent tornados, hurricanes, and Earthquakes from ever happening. But no, it just has to be used as a weapon, even though the US signed a UN treaty from back in 1970s to not use that technology for warfare...

Sometimes I think that "Extremist" Muslims are not the concern here... I think there is more "Terror" in governments alone than some guys sitting in a cave...

Consider Ligotti's Conspiracy Against the Human Race.