I could go into a long and hopelessly drawn out post but honestly all it would say is "this contradicts everything I know about the organisation AND the Middle East in general since I first looked into it in the late 90's".

It's encouraging to see that sometimes both sides come together against what is wrong. It's a pity this wasn't more widely publicised.

Nah, Ann Coulter's not clever enough to be evil. She's a wannabe conservative comedian whose humor is more puerile than pointed.

As for "the media" getting the blame for making Park 51 the "big story" – Sarah Palin has been doing a bang-up job in her own right, tweeting the "big story" on Twitter. Gotta give the girl credit for knowing when to score media points (if for nothing else).

-- Nephele

Westboro's biggest opposition [as far as people on the ground in the frontlines] has been those biker groups that travel the country to counter-protest their protests. I'm not sure where those bikers would fall politically, I know a large portion of them are Vietnam veterans, but that doesn't really indicate much as far as political ideology is concerned. I don't know if any of you have seen the actual funerals where Westboro has showed up, but generally what happens is various bikers will show up with American flags to try to create a barrier between the Westboro protests, and the funeral services them self. The purpose of the flags originally was to try to aid in creating those visual barriers. Sometimes various gay groups show up, since they're naturally also in opposition to Westboro. I'm sure we've all seen the pictures online where gay counter protesters were protesting Westboro's protests [try saying that five times fast]. I think we all know where those groups usually fall politically.

IMHO it's who shows up on the ground that tells me the most about where peoples' views fall. Sure, some of the conservative talk shows have come out against Westboro, but have we seen the Tea Party counter protest them yet? I haven't seen anything online to indicate they have, and in fact Westboro has tried to ally themselves [unsuccessfully for whatever its worth] with the tea party because they see them as like-minded. [The Tea Party is probably smart enough not to touch them with a 10 ft pole, it would ruin their image in a heart beat].

Now let me ask, what groups are actually in NYC, on the ground, protesting this proposed Mosque? American Freedom Defense Initiative, the Tea Party, American Family Association, and so forth: NONE OF WHICH have been mobilized in such a way against Westboro! These particular groups don't care about the families of soldiers killed in action as much as they care about keeping mosques out of NYC.

Now I may readily agree that the Islamic world is known for human rights violations, in particular towards women and children, but I don't think that is truly relevant since it is not, picking from random, Iran, that will be running this mosque if it is to go ahead. A moratorium on mosques in any part of the United States, to say nothing of New York City, should be based on what happens here in this country rather than those abroad.

I expect, and welcome someone to disagree with me by showing examples of honor killings, forced female circumcisions, and other inhumane things that have gone on in this country due to Islamic radicals. I welcome this because it opens up the door for us to discuss all the various similar things that Christians in this country have done: things that could be used to create a similar moratorium against further construction of Churches in this country. We forget too easily that the Southern Evangelicals have been definitively proven to be linked to hate crimes in Africa, including Uganda's proposal to seek the death penalty for those convicted of homosexuality. We could easily find instances of abortion clinic bombs, abortion surgeon assassinations, and other similar examples of domestic terrorism, and that is but the tip of the iceberg on the subject. By this I am not arguing in favor of any such moratoriums, I am just showing how far this logic would go if applied across the board.

Also you should ban synagogues because Jews forced male circumscision.

Oh wait.....

I would go even further by stating that their sole purpose is to draw attention to themselves in the media as their whole guise is to piss people off to such a degree that they lash out thus giving groups like Westborough ammunition to counter-attack with lawsuits to fund their nutbag agenda.

Not that I condone it, but I can say I am VERY surprised that some nutbag from the opposing side (or those who side with American soldiers) hasn't gone off the deep-end and bombed one of their protests.

~spidey

It's been tried, or so I've heard. My friend was relating a story about a Liberty University student who tried to hit them with a car bomb the day they picketed Jerry Falwell's funeral for not hating the gays enough. He was caught by the police, though.

Anyways, why do people keep using the word "mosque?" Is it a mosque, or and Islamic community center? Either way, it's being built by a liberal imam whose goal is to reconcile Islam and the western world. I don't see what's offensive about it in the slightest.

Another take on it: http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-t ... -no-sense/

The twisted little devil in me says to build it right on ground zero, then ask "Fancy another go Osama?"

The cultured clash wars proceed unabated, my take is that America stands for real freedom - whatever the consequences, damn the kings, barons and tyrants. So just build the thing, show that you still respect other peoples choices. Don't compromise the principles your country was built on.

So posting that on Facebook. More people need to watch it. I was very heartened and impressed to listen to it.

As for actual ground zero, I personally think a colourful memorial garden full of flowers should be put there. Or something like that.

-- Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:14 pm --

In the interests of tolerance and universal religious understanding, I propose the construction of an Orthodox Church by the site of the Srebrenica Massacre.

-- Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:25 pm --



Just a reminder:

She graduated 'cum laude' from Cornell in history, and in law school became a member of the 'Order of the Coif', a fairly exclusive club for honours law students, which means she's probably smarter than most people on this board, and I don't exclude myself.....

-- Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:34 pm --

Get ready for 'proud, hard-working union workers' to be suddenly transformed overnight to 'slack-jawed, loutish right-wing goons' in the loony-left blogs overnight :

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/20/2010-08-20_we_wont_build_it_hardhats_say_no_way_they_will_work_on_wtc_mosque.html

Just a reminder... I never said the woman didn't have the wherewithal to have navigated her way through college. I said "she's not clever enough to be evil." And also that her sense of humor is puerile.

And as for building an Orthodox Church by the site of the Srebrenica Massacre... Your analogy is asinine. The people building the community center in lower Manhattan are NOT guilty of genocide, nor have they broken any laws in this nation. Additionally, they own the property for the planned community center.

But, because they are Muslim, they offend people who would rather have them build their center elsewhere.

Some people need to realize that the Muslim people who want to build this community center also happen to be U.S. citizens.

-- Nephele

If the building was either a Mosque OR built on ground zero I'd agree with them. Since they are clearly ignorant of the facts I've gotta label them as idiots. Of course they're entitled to not work on any project that they don't want to, but in these recessionary times can they really afford to?

Anyway, everyone knows the Unions are run by the Mafia.

The question is not the legal right to build: most people acknowledge that they are completely within their rights.

The issue is whether it is appropriate, sensitive, constructive and morally RIGHT to build it there.

And the same goes for my example of the building of an Orthodox Church at Srebrenica: surely Orthodox Christians are no more collectively responsible for the massacre than Moslems are collectively responsible for 911.

But the building of the mosque is no more morally defensible than my example of the building of a church. BOTH would be inappropriate, and BOTH deeply injure the feelings of those most affected by these respective crimes.

It'd be more like building an Orthodox community center two blocks over from Srebrenica.

Morality doesn't come into it, this is pure spin for divisive partisan politics by the right wing, playing on the xenophobia of the USA and turning neighbour against neighbour for political gain.

I kinda like libertarian [a TRUE libertarian!] Greg Gutfeld's novel idea of building a gay bar right beside the mosque in order to foster an atmosphere of tolerance and mutual understanding.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/08/top-30-gutfeldgaybarnames.html


I like some of the possible names for it:

Allah Assbar

Jihard

Al-Jizzera

Hide the Minaret

-- Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:11 pm --



You mean rabid right-wingers like Howard Dean and Harry Reid?