Hey, you're not alone there. In fact, there is a term for that when it develops into genuine interest: Guydyke. I myself have a very big infatuation with all things pertaining to lesbian intimacy.

I've avoided this thread so far because, to be frank, I've had nothing positive to contribute. I can't give advice to Bfly's cousin, because when I "came out" everything went horrendously wrong and as a result, no more family. Well, such is life.

annwn, Samhain, please know that I respect you deeply as individuals. However, you will realise that it is with tongue firmly in cheek when I say I'm so glad that what I, and people like me, do between the sheets is of such fascination to you, and that it's a matter of idle conversation for you. Remind me to send you an invitation for the next time I want to be with my partner.

Samhain, you stated "what you said about women not being taken seriously is one of the main reasons I consider myself a feminist". How, exactly, does objectifying women by making them a source of erotic titillation count as either "feminism" or taking women seriously? Sounds like the same old, same old to me.

Darkly, don't be offended, please. This is always the old as you say, women shape nothing more. See, men may be attracted to lesbian sex, as they say, but when put in front of the situation where they are actually invited in, they step back, why? Fear not to be able to face the situation. This is what I've learned about italian machomen. As we say in Italy, that's all smoke no roast. So why would you be offended by something like that? I, personally, find it lovely how men can react to female shape, the smoke as I said, and their sudden timidity in front of a woman whose apperance they really like, their approaching women always the wrong way, their declaring to be feminist when they should call themselves addicted instead. You may call that forgiving, they may take it as personal offence, it's neither, it's just the way I've learned to accept their little faults and their big ones and love them as human beings.

Moreover you should take into consideration another perspective. When anybody realizes they have nothing against gay, it still is very difficult to find a way to relate to the matter. Whatever one may say will be taken the wrong way and shown as proof of rejection, when actually it may not be. So, please, when you read those statements, please, take into account that they would say exactly the same thing about a man and a woman. Really, this is all about female shape nothing more, I'm sure.

The two you are talking to, in particular, I find really beautiful, Samhain's bondish attitude, annwn's macho attitude when attacking machos, really lovely. Two sentences you dind't like, don't really make them bad guys, it's just their way of accepting, as I read it. Moreover, from my reading of the whole, that was more a critic to the fact that female gays are more accepted than male and their exposing themselves in such a matter is to me part of their beauty.

Added later: I personally don't see it as objectifing women, given the fact that the one you're talking about is really able to listen to both women and men and answer the same way to both. Objectifing women is really very different in my experience, I personally feel more an object when someone sais he doesn't consider me only for my apperance and then doesn't understand a single word of what I'm saying.

-- 15 Mar 2010, 14:37 --

-.-" if only you could hear what I have to all day through, Darkly... woman as an object is understating this. These two guys in my office... they don't even try to explain me things because they take for granted I wouldn't understand, if I say my opinion about any subject they start explaining why I'm wrong when they don't have an Idea what I was saying. I'm researching stuff in already done work to know what I have to do, I'm working hard to do my best and copying, spying, checking, trying all on my own, because a little girl with blue eyes is automatically connected to stupid. I'm slapping them in the face with my ability to do things even if they didn't bother explaining, and I'm doing great. Then when someone comes in, I suddenly become their pet and show me to everyone... think it's funny? I don't.

DarklyInclined, I wouldn't presume to speak for Samhain or anyone else, but what I'm saying has really nothing to do with what is right or wrong or good and bad, i'm simply pointing out that heterosexual men just can't help feeling what they feel and can't help being attracted to what they're attracted to, any more than you or anyone else can, straight or gay. It just IS. That's all. It can't be turned on and off any more than one can turn on and off a desire for good pizza with a jug of excellent beer when one is hungry and thirsty.

Personally I find the act of sex beautiful- no matter what sex the partners are; though I will admit to finding female partners more visually attractive- and I mean this as no offense. However I think reading it, seeing it on tv and seeing it in person are very different things as I would never want to watch people have sex right in front of me in the flesh (you know what I mean), However one screen and / or in erotica novels it can be very appealing. And I am a female.

As I have been a reader of Samhain's post in the past I do not believe he meant any offense at all, though I am sure he will answer you in his own time. Personally I really respect Samhain and I doubt he has ever posted anything with the intent of being a jerk or derogitory toward any sex. And on this note I will silence myself.

Gothic Butterfly : Any word on how the cousin is doing or if he has told his family yet?

This was a focus in my Current History class. We all pretty much agreed that it was BS. Even my teacher, who vowed to always be neutral with opinions, said he can't believe this is happening in 2010. Seriously.

The thing that disturbs me the most is not the thing about not letting her bring her girlfriend. I can understand the homophobes (barely). But I can't understand how this blatant sexism is allowed. Letting guys wearing something and girls not = sexism. Schools aren't supposed to support that.

You know what makes me uncomfortable? When students are grinding right next to me at prom. But hey, no one says anything. I just move away! And that's the end of it.

WTF???

Yeah, they enforce the ideal that the girls are to wear dresses and the boys are to wear suits/tuxedos. Their rules state that if a girl were to show up to prom in a tux, she would be asked to leave since her attire apparently doesn't fit her "gender role", hence the sexism aspect.

~spidey, who's wondering if it really is 2010 or if she somehow took a wrong turn through a wormhole to 1930...

What a load of crap. Gays persecute the straights as much as straight persecute the gays. If you bury one half of the reality, it doesn't make it ok for everyone. I heard gays saying that pro-homo laws do not affect the religious freedom, yet more and more churches are being closed for not accepting to marry gay people. Sure, everybody has freedom, as long a gays have more freedom than the rest. Are gays so important and superior that entire institutions should be closed to satisfy ones ego to the detriment of community? Gay discrimination is becoming an efficient way of making money. If I ever get broke, I'll be sure to turn gay, so I can sue somebody, and settle myself for life. See? There is a pro and contra argument for every single matter.

Unfortunately, it's always the activities of a few individuals, and how we feel about that, which define the way we experience a forum like this. Gnet clearly doesn't need, or want, me, and frankly... I can live without the pain and rejection I feel as a result of having tried to be a member... My self-esteem is fragile at best, but it has taken one hell of a battering since I joined this network of "tolerant", "open-minded" people, and frankly I'd be better off leaving before it's wiped out completely and I'm left - once again - suffering from depression.

[In other words, "Shut the fuck up, you stupid lezzie - we aren't interested in your feelings. It's more important to understand a pornographer and his sexist buddy."

[In other words, "Keep your lezzie thoughts to yourself - we're not interested; on an LGBT-focussed thread, it's more important to talk about the sexism of a dress code".

Incident 3 - from the same thread


This speaks for itself.

And, finally, I'd just like to quote - with the permission of the recipient - from a PM I sent recently:

In other words, "Keep your lezzie thoughts to yourself - we're not interested; on an LGBT-focussed thread, it's more important to talk about the sexism of a dress code".

I'm not going to bother to say much - I'm just passing through.

However, the reasons for starting this thread are because I have a very different experience of things on this forum. ...

In other words, "Shut the fuck up, you stupid lezzie - we aren't interested in your feelings. It's more important to understand a pornographer and his sexist buddy."

Personally I find the act of sex beautiful- no matter what sex the partners are; though I will admit to finding female partners more visually attractive- and I mean this as no offense. However I think reading it, seeing it on tv and seeing it in person are very different things as I would never want to watch people have sex right in front of me in the flesh (you know what I mean), However one screen and / or in erotica novels it can be very appealing. And I am a female.

As I have been a reader of Samhain's post in the past I do not believe he meant any offense at all, though I am sure he will answer you in his own time. Personally I really respect Samhain and I doubt he has ever posted anything with the intent of being a jerk or derogitory toward any sex. And on this note I will silence myself.

DarklyInclined, at no point had I ever given any indication that I am a 'pornographer' and anyone who speaks to me for more than a few minutes will clearly see I am not sexist (and neither is the person you are refering to in your post). I've tried apologizing to you, to work things out with you and help us understand each other better. But it was all for naught because you didn't seem to be interested in anything I had to say, even though I made it clear that I was interested in what you had to say.

I'm stunned and my feelings are quite hurt, to be honest.

Thanks to everyone who stood up for me by the way.

Well, even if he was a pornographer, for argument's shake; there's something misandric about saying it's ok for a lesbian to find lesbians hot, but immoral for a straight guy to think the same.

Well, even if he was a pornographer, for argument's shake; there's something misandric about saying it's ok for a lesbian to find lesbians hot, but immoral for a straight guy to think the same.

Hey, Darkly, Minnie... I'm guessing that you're going through a rough time right now, which has led you to judge this forum harshly and, really, pretty unjustly. I hope you stick around long enough to read Sgath's and Funeral Party's very wise responses posted above.

You seem pretty smart to me, Darkly, so I'm going to be a bit presumptuous here in saying that maybe when you've had some time to cool off and think about things some more, you'll maybe see that you don't really have any enemies here.

You sound like you're really hurting. Wish I could do something to help.

-- Nephele