So, this week in class we are learning about Native Americans...and it is really pissing me with what everyone is saying.

Basically they all believe that Natives should leave the reservations and live like normal people, even if it means setting aside their heritiage to progess in the world.

I am the only one who said I would stay on a reservation and follow the old ways...sad huh? Though I did get one person to agee with me...

They also say that, in presuing a higher education and conforming to society you will not forget who you are.


so I am wondering how they can say "You need to change to better yourself, but in bettering yourself, you will not change" seriously.

I am of a different opinion. Leave them alone and let them, Please let them, be themselves. Forget about the politics, the proverty, everything. If they want to live like their ancestors did, who are we to judge that and say they need to get over it ad cange to fit the times?

Your Thoughts?

Europeans have been eating away at the Nature American culture scince they first set foot here. If they can't let them do what they want then We seriously need to get slapped. Let them have their culture it's not ours to take away from them. People need to back off.

I think we should leave them alone. If they want to continue with traditions that have been passed down for generations, I say let them. What harm is coming from it? Some people are always making a fuss and trying to tell people how to live. I say let them be.

I agree.

Someone even said that the assimilation (merging into the culture) of the Natives went very nicely and very smoothly. I do not know much about that, per say, but that is NOT how it went for all of them. Yes, Some did go to the schools and shit willingingly, but others did not want to go.

I do not see how telling someone that all that they believe (including religion) is wrong and they are no longer allowed to be how they are so that they can be proper Americans. That is just wrong to me. People seem to forget that we tried to make them slaves and kill them off. It goes so much deeper than just assimiltion.

Native American History: Wiki Style

Considering the money to be made in casinos, I think some tribes would have to be crazy to leave the reservations.

-- Nephele

I think the American majority should stop with making everyone assimilate to them and do more with cultural reparations. The thing, with minority groups, is that if you stray outside of your community, then you are farther away from the support that you would normally get from kinfolk (not only cultural support, but also certain health benefits that are linked to certain communities), which is why blacks usually live together, why Koreans nestle together, Polish people form their communities, and why Native Americans stay on reservations. That and because it's the only thing they have left from their ancestral background - unless of course corporate American is encroaching on their small allotements in order to mine for uranium or some other depleted natural resource. Then again, the whole reservation system is pretty much another case of environmental racism, and that needs to change.

On another hand, America needs to stop romanticizing the hell out of Native Americans. Sure, they have ties to their roots, like a lot of people do, but that doesn't stop them from wanting to be something bigger, like doctors and lawyers and scientists and actors (and there are Native American doctors and lawyers and scientists and actors). People have this problem with seeing Native Americans outside of this "noble savage" stereotype (and the like), and you know: that's really insulting. I was reading on this website (www.bluecorncomics.com ; check it out) about how some school or something asked for some Native Americans to talk to their body, and they agreed. They came in, and much to the audience's chagrin, they weren't dressed in any traditional ceremonial garbs: just ties and suits. Some people were so dissappointed by the display that some actually left when all the speakers did was talk (no singing, chanting, or any dance routines). In the acting/modeling world, there seems to be this glass ceiling for Native Americans: you never see them in any movie or TV role unless they're playing a stereotypical shaman-like role or are some historical backdrop (the only non-stereotypical role that I remember a Native American playing was Adam Beach as Chester Lake in Law & Order: SVU).

I can't really make up much of a discussion with this alone, so I'll end this post with the U.S. government as well as public interest groups should aim more at helping Native Americans in their situation, since they're the minority group who are the worst off (and I find it funny that a lot of blacks like to still think they're the worst off in America), but not in the "they should assimilate to U.S. majority culture" kind of way (boarding schools didn't help much). Not to say that Native Americans are totally crippled as an ethnicity, but maybe if other civil rights groups, like the NAACP gave some aid and recognition to other colored people...

(And the casino thing is really more of an exageration.)

It really depends on the tribe, which is why I said some would be crazy to leave the reservations. The Mashantucket Pequot of Connecticut own and operate Foxwoods Casino, which is not only the biggest casino in the U.S., it's also one of the largest casinos in the world. Second biggest casino in the U.S. is Mohegan Sun in Connecticut, owned by the Mohegan Tribe. They're raking in millions every year.

A 20-year study (published in 2002) by William Evans and Julie Topoleski titled The Social and Economic Impact of Native American Casinos (link to abstract) revealed that "half of the Indians on or near reservations now belong to tribes that have opened Las Vegas-style casinos."

Positive changes for these tribes included: "young adults moving back to reservations, fueling an 11.5 percent population increase; adult employment increasing by 26 percent; and a 14 percent decline in the number of working poor."

Soon to join the 50% of Native Americans belonging to casino-owning tribes will be Long Island's own Shinnecock Tribe, which has recently been granted Federal recognition and is now actively working towards the purchase of additional land for the purpose of building a casino of their own.

-- Nephele

That is true, as you said, for some tribes. In others, like the Ktunaxa or the Kootenai, tribal casinos have had a positive and a negative impact in the community, mainly due to youths who think they will be well benefited from their parents' casinos and therefore don't put any effort in school, some even dropping out and not bothering to find a job. Boy were they in for a surprise.

I think the most annoying thing about the Native Americans that DON'T live within "normal" society is all they basically do is mooch money off the government, drink, do drugs, and bitch about everything. At least around here. One of the most well-known incidents in Southern Ontario is the Caledonia land dispute, which, because of the protesters, caused traffic accidents, fights, increase in illegal tobacco sales (that IS, after all, where ALL illegal tobacco comes from around here is reserves), and a bunch of other problems. What was once a peaceful town became bombarded with ass-hollery.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/caledonia-landclaim/

And on the Canadian version of "Cops", called "To Protect and Serve", majority of the arrests/calls I've seen have been over drunken Native Americans. Of the Native Americans I've seen around here, probably about 80% of them spend their time drinking, while on government money, instead of working for a living.

I think that, as the technical founders of this land, they should definitely be able to keep their lands, their cultures, etc. However, the expense shouldn't be solely on the same groups of people (ancestors of settlers from Europe, mainly) that the Native Americans are always complaining about and starting problems with. They should pay their own expenses, whether they be on "their land" or within the generalized population. Hell, even if they get their housing for free, they should still work if they want things like beer and drugs!

Yep. Which serves as a note to mainstream America not to view all Native Americans as belonging to the same "Indian" culture. As I figure you already know, Native Americans make up numerous nations, so what works for one tribe may not work for another.

It'll be interesting to see how the Shinnecocks fare, should they get their casino. I've been on their reservation when they have their annual Labor Day Pow Wow. I doubt I'll gamble in their casino, as I'm the kind of person who goes to Las Vegas just to see Penn & Teller. I'm not a gambler.

-- Nephele

On some level, I do agree with you, Arc, and this is actually a topic I do like researching (parallels between African Americans and Native Americans) because the thing with the alchoholism and the not working is similar to how some African Americans act. I do think that both groups should become more independent from government handouts (because that means more power to the group and less control from "The Man"), but with the alchololism and various substance and phyiscal abuse (and the not liking white people a lot) - most prominantly with Native Americans, a lot of it has to do with historical trauma.

http://www.historicaltrauma.com/
http://www.pbs.org/indiancountry/challenges/trauma.html

I see a lot of people, non-Native people mainly, don't like to say or accept that what Native Americans had to go through was (cultural) genocide, not just being pushed off their land (it's similar to how some Americans don't care to consider that slavery was more than just having to work for no pay). I think it's because Americans can't really use that "G" word on themselves: only on Hitler and other likeminded dictators. "Genocide" is very strong word afterall.

(And just to throw it out there, with the "bitching" thing, non-white minorities will always complain about white people, no matter what socio-economic situation they're in.)

I'm rather of the mind that native Americans should all just join contemporary American society. Yes, it sucks what was done to them, but what I've seen and heard about reservation life, with its high rates of alcoholism, diabetes, and infant mortality, makes me think that there must be a better way.

We might do well to follow New Zealand's example, where a certain number of seats in parliament are reserved for Maori people.

Very few of these tribes are actually living their native cultures (Blackfoot reservation is near where I live so I see it daily)...my grandmother is half Pequot (a tribe from Connecticut). All she wants is the okay to smoke peyote...long rant short here but I think no one ought to be forced to do anything. If it is their [the Native Americans] wish to stay on their lands, let them. I don't want to see anyone forced to assimilate more than they already have. In my final opinion, what was done is done. Why continue to punish people for the sins their ancestors committed a hundred years ago? A few of my ancestors did keep slaves...so should I be thrown in prison for their mistake? No. I'll just keep paying taxes out the wazoo so their descendants don't have to work. Reverse slavery maybe?


LC

What this country should do in this connection and what it will do are completely unrelated things. The fundamental real issue is that the (surviving) first nations of America generally live under occupation and are held in what are essentially concentration camps. ("Reserves.") The first nations, as far as I'm concerned, have the complete and unconditional right to decide for themselves what sort of society and culture they wish to adopt for themselves and this absolute right is currently and continually being violated on the most basic level by the ongoing occupation of what are rightly their lands. As foreign occupiers, our only appropriate role in connection to this issue is to support any anti-occupation struggle and any resistance to further oppression that might emerge therein.

See? We essentially agree on something for once.

The main difference between Native Americans and other minority groups who have similar situations is that indiginous tribes are basically soverign nations, so they shouldn't have to assimilate. However, having the self-dependency to govern yourself makes it all the more difficult to negotiation on environmental issues that their land is faced with.