Nah, I like the long name. They get confused and give up. lol.

*shrugs*im a....thing....

You're a waste of bandwidth?

Lilith

sorry, didn't mean to click "post"

Sorry if I'm jumping into this conversation at a strange point, but I have to wonder, why are labels so important to people? And having read the above posts, it appears that the people who need a label the most are the ones who don't yet know who they are themselves. Maybe they're hoping that the label will define them rather than the other way around?

Just a thought...

Considering many people I know who are Goth As Fuck &tm; avoid the Goth label, usually to avoid being defined as only that because they feel they transcend just the one pigeonhole, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I've also touched on it in a few posts asking why people felt the need to use a label they don't know fits quite right/yet/at all.

The original post in this thread by Blood_Rose was started to touch upon this subject as well.

Good point. Welcome as well!



Lilith

Nice pionts there, Serenity.

Yes, I also agree, people shouldn't define themselves by labels. they themselves should be the definition.

Usually when ever I come into contact with the word 'goth' itself it is usualy used by people who want to come up with a label for me. I don't run around saying "Hi, I'm Blood Rose... I'm a goth." It just doesn't work that way, because I tend to be very casual a lot of the time with my style. However when people see me, they automatically think goth regardless of the color I am wearing.

The whole "what is goth?" arguement bothers met to no end. I hate getting into the debate, and having to explain it to the random Lamers that come on board.

Why?

Because it inhibits me from discussing stuff above and beyond the introductory level with people.



Edited By blood_rose on April 03 2002 at 21:07

Also, finding out what Goth is really isn't that hard when armed with a browser, google and some time.

As I've mentioned before, Goths are one of the most present subcultures on the net, barring the geeks/gamers and there is no lack of results to any query involving the subculture really.

It's also pretty easy to spot which websites take a serious, informational and/or professional attitude to the subculture over the kIdDiEs wHo ThInK tHaT ALteRnAtInG cApS MAKe thEM LoOk KeWlIeS.

Lilith

So then we make the effort to go beyond introductory...*smile* Okay, so I'm new here and none of you know and I guess I'm slightly stuck in the introductory phase. If we can all look beyond that for a moment, I'd appreciate it.

Beyond that, I'd best start a new topic because it's no longer anything to do with Goth fashion. When I awake in the morning (*sad but true*) I shall endeavor to discuss meaningful things...

~S~

Right right...sleep is good. Not goth fashion, "what is goth."


"But really Father, what is a Goth?"
"My dear child, they are the people that the Lord warned us about."
"Ohhhh, mebbe he should have moved somewhere with a sound ordinance? Or thicker walls?"

Yeah...that's it.

I agree. I kind of wanted to point that out myself, but didn't want to sound condescending. I like the Goth culture and I admire the people and their dark clothing and music and what-not. It's a very interesting culture that I can really identify with, but I don't really want to be a part of any particular culture myself. I'm really more into just being myself, whatever myself happens to want to be at the moment.

I'm glad blood_rose pointed out some of the fundamentals of what is and what isn't Goth. Now if someone would just go on MTV and announce to all the little kiddy poseurs that their Marilyn Manson fetish isn't Goth!

While you're at it, can someone tell MTV that Goth sex does not equal BDSM/unsafe sex/misc. other perverted/kinky stuff.

This apparantly was what they portrayed in that show last night. I missed it, but there were more than enough people I know on some Goth mailing lists that were angered by the insinuations, especially those of unsafe sex.

Anyway, if these kiddies are getting their "Goth is..." information from MTV, they can keep their misconceptions and remain poseurs and not become part of the true scene.

Lilith

"geri-Goth?" Please. Elder Goth. If you call me a geri-Goth i'm going to pout. And how could you say that William S. isn't a classic just because he's modern? Oh well.

So here's a trivial question: what about Depeche Mode and The Cure?

It's my opinion that they're not actually goth for myriad reasons but they get regular rotation at club and scads of our ilk show up at their concerts. Yeah, of course, i know it doesn't matter. I just want to hear your take on it.

- AX

If you have a quick glance at the books Blood_Rose named Classics, they're generally 100+ years old. While I've not read Burroughs' work, I'm pretty sure it didn't come out over 100+ years ago. And then there's the semantics of a book being a modern one (by publishing date) yet still being a classic.

I share your opinion on both The Cure & Depeche Mode. Both bands are probably not Goth for those myriad reasons, but they're widely loved in the scene and most definitely were influential, even now, both musically and stylistically/visually/etc. I think Robert Smith and Siouxsie kept the backcombing/crimping/hairsprayed hairstyle industry going singlehandedly

Depeche Mode technically fall under the more synthpop iirc.

Lilith

So what it boils down to, and i hope i'm not beating the topic to death at this point, is that we're not concerned with labelling ourselves at all but others will do so regardless.

For some, being goth is little like being queer. One day you wake up and notice that the mere fact that you like certain things and have a particular circle of friends has placed you in an arbritrary category. It's a small enough subculture that a sense of community, of belonging developes - but it's a large enough subculture that it draws unwanted attention. And there's nothing more irksome than being confronted with assumptions about who you are based on a stereotype, on ignorance.

- AX