Gothic is a subculture born of a style of music, so there already is Gothic music, and it's not nu-metal.

In my opinion you cannot call yourself a goth if you don't listen to gothic music, especially considering the music is such an integral part of where the subculture comes from. My definition of a goth is someone who listens to goth music as their main staple, though it doesn't have to be exclusively because of course people have diverse tastes. But if you mainly listen to nu-metal I'd be hard pressed to call you gothic. That's like listening to mainly country music and saying you're into rap.

Slipknot, Korn and Mudvayne are not gothic bands by any stretch of the imagination. They might borrow some of the imagery sometimes, but it's just not the same thing.



My main problem is with the people who become "goths" because it's the popular thing to do, not realising that what the media is portraying as gothic, and what they think or claim is gothic, just isn't gothic... like all the kids that I come across that think that listening to Marilyn Manson, Korn and Slipknot and shopping at Snot Topic makes them Goth. These are the people that you'll see referred to as poser/poseurs and wannabes.

Bottom line is that my problem is with those people who just don't have a fucking clue what the subculture is about, and can't be bothered to find out and just cough up what the media has spoonfed them or follow some trend.


Lilith

Well well, I hope that last reference wasn't directed at me, since I am making an effort.

As I understood it, even if you don't listen to the gothic type of music, you can still be a goth, which a gothic frame of mind. Is that not true?

No, it wasn't, for the reason you stated.



For me, and for many, the music is an integral part of the subculture. And considering it came about because of music, I don't feel that you can call yourself a Goth without listening to *some* Goth music.

Lilith

ok, so even if you have the mentality, you still have to be into the music? Kind of strange... I read the sites definition of goth, and it said the types of music they like vary widly... I guess that's wrong then?

The only reason I like nu-metal is because they sing about problems I have, and screaming is the best way to get stuff out... I dunno, take a look at my tiny cd collection:

Korn, slipknot, mindless self indulgence, mudvayne, system of a down, taproot, coal chamber, static x.

Is that a collection that any goth would be ashamed to have? I'm a little confused.

Did you read that link that I gave you? That will explain it.

Mes

Meh, ya know, I'm not in it for validation, and I feel goth, so I am. That's how I know I am. I don't really wanna be rejected from the group that finds all other groups repulsive... Cause I share the same ideals... You know, rejected from the rejected... Don't wanna subject myself to it.

That article also states at the bottom that it is the opinion of it's author (PreZ) and that there are also 101 definitions for what Goth is, and that you'd be hard to find any Goth that would agree 100% on everything... as a friend of mine likes to say "trying to organise Goths is like trying to herd cats".

I also said in an above post that you don't have to listen to Goth music all the time but you can't be Goth and never listen to Goth music. I can't say I'm into rap and never listen to rap music, same with being a metal head, or a grunger.



Well, aside from the Static-X "Cold" single that was a freebie at a Queen of the Damned release party I don't own any of the music you listed, they also don't appeal to me because nü-metal doesn't appeal to me. My cd collection contains at a glance: Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Crüxshadows, Faith and the Muse, Sunshine Blind, Bella Morte, The Sisters of Mercy, This Ascension, Big Electric Cat, and those are just a few of the cd's.

If you have various goth bands lined up next to those nü-metal bands then no you wouldn't necessarily need to feel ashamed. I personally would feel ashamed to have only those bands and still try and call myself goth.

Lilith

Just so you know, the Gothic subculture is NOT the catch-all bin for all rejects.

Just because someone doesn't fit anywhere else doesn't mean that by default they will fit in here.

Lilith

Yes, but it doesn't mean that just because of my music collection, I can't be a goth. I still feel it.

Actually, I kind of think it does.

That's not to say that you're a bad person or anything. But think of it this way.

I love outer space. I love stargazing. I've got mad wanderlust. The thought of weightlessness excites me instead of nauseating me. I would love to fly among the stars, and I'm the sort of guy who if asked, "Will you be the first human to fly to Mars even if you could never come back?" would say YES.

But that doesn't make me an astronaut.

One thing and one thing alone makes you an astronaut: sitting on 40 tons of explosive material and launching your ass beyond the stratosphere. And I haven't done that.

Doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it just means that I'm not an astronaut, despite what's "in my heart."

So I say that if you don't enjoy and listen to goth music, you're not a goth. Doesn't mean you're a bad person--I think you're pretty cool from what I've read in your first two dozen posts--it just means you're not a goth.

SS

I feel a little sorry for our non gothic friend. I am returning to this scene after some time. I do occasionally still listen to gothic music, is that enough?

Aw, that sucks that I'm not goth... ah well... Can you recomend some goth music? Maybe something hard?

I don't know if you'd consider them "hard", but you might want to give the Sisters of Mercy a shot. They are energetic and usually up-tempo, so they might help ease you into the genre, if that's what you're looking to do.

I also want to add my voice to the choir of musical diversity. Personally, I would find listening to one type of music, and one type only, intensely boring. Do I like goth music? Most definitely; I was listening to Siouxsie and the Banshees before I knew that there was such a thing as "goth". However, I also fancy nearly every other type of music imaginable (with a few notable exceptions . . . *cough*countrypophiphop*cough*). I even like some really cheesy, fluffy bits like big-hair 80s power ballads and such. If you dig that crazy nu-metal, that's cool, yo. I'll make sure to leave all of those records untouched for you at Tower. But if you really have those "goth feelings", give some of the bands a shot. If you feel the way you say you do, I'll just bet some of them are going to "strike a chord" with you . . .

~Nachtzehrer, who welcomes the abuse that he so richly deserves for that last terrible pun~

Hey man, that was kool, thanks for the good words... I think someone can be whatever they want without listening to that groups music... Yes it has a big influence, but hey... I think someone can be a "Punk" without listening to "punk music" if you get my meaning. To each their own... I'm gonna go give those CDs a listen.

personally, i dont listen to mostly gothic music...partly because i just got into the genre (imagine living in a house with a VERY southern baptist mother, that barely allows anything but Pop, country, or christian music to be heard outside my room) so, i had to get stuff she wouldnt hate...and as i lived in the middle of nowwhere, colorado, i didnt get a chance to goto any music stores often, other than walmart... >.<...but i've gotten to the point of listening to nearly anything, metal comprising most of my collection...because thats what i was most into at the time i had a decent internet connection...but i will listen to nearly anything, techno, metal, nu-metal, gothic, some country (i was raised on it), comedy, dance music, whatever i feel like listening to...

i just got into the gothic music recently, but havent bought a cd yet, because im on minimum wage with over $150 a month coming out from loans...plus all other expenses...all i can do is download...but so far, of what ive downloaded from the lists given in posts here, ive loved it all...

i dont consider myself a goth, not really...ive been called one, because i dont wear anything but black (i just dont like colors...) and the fact that i usually wear a pentagram necklace...

I dont have any "gothic" clothes, nor do i use makeup...

am i goth? to me, it doesnt matter, i dont like being classed in any one group...i come here for interesting conversation, interesting humour (humour forum ), and to find good music...