Paul Johnson Jr, an American civilian abducted in Saudi Arabia last week, has been beheaded. Full story


Paul Johnson Jr. and his wife Noom.

May he rest in peace, and may we bring swift vengeance on the guilty.

These f---s make excuses each time, and this time they claim it's because he worked on Apache helecopters. But after doing the same to a journalist (Pearl) and an electrician (Berg), it's pretty obvious that these monsters just get kicks out of beheading infidels.

SS



Edited By StarvingStudent47 on 1087592677

Amidst the chaos, uncertainty and corruption in the War on Terror, it is important to remember that there are still legitimate foes out there. This tragedy is a chilling example of that fact.

I ardently hope that the family of this man may find a measure of peace, and that those responsible for this heinous crime will face true justice.

I will never understand how people can do such things...


daladus

Apparently the Saudi's killed the people responsible, according to the "news".... .

Boo friggedy hoo....American's butcher people everyday in the war...I don't see you crying over THOSE people. They're just retaliating. All is fair in love and war.


Though, I do give my best wishes to the family.

So according to your justification it would be all-right for us to go kill a random Saudi living in the US and publicly display the images in celebration?

That's just sick...

These weren't soldiers in a combat situation, this is kidnap humiliation and murder. There are no justifications ever.

God, that's so terrible. I wish all of this would end soon...

I do agree somewhat with BellaDonna...so many Iraqis die, but few care...they're just the "barbarians," to us "civilized" white folk...it's so sad, not to mention blatant racism and arrogance.

Actually, yes you do. With a couple of notable exceptions, the overwhelming majority of regular posters on this board are very much against the war in Iraq. I personally am very concerned about the casualties on both sides. So, count yourself as wrong on that score. If you are looking to do some warhawk bashing, you have come to the wrong place.


Heh. That's funny.

Now, earlier in this post, I mentioned the war in Iraq, as I assumed that the "butchered people" you were referrring to were casualties in that conflict. Perhaps you weren't reading the news very clearly, so allow me to set you straight on something: this beheading was inflicted upon a civilian. That, in itself, makes it fucking heinous and wrong, the torturous, execution-style nature of the death notwithstanding. Additionally, it didn't happen in Iraq . . . it happened in Saudi Arabia. Further, the perpetrators were not some sort of idealized, Pancho Villa-esque Iraqi freedom fighters . . . the were members of fucking al Qaida. Remember those guys? The dudes who brutally massacred thousands of innocent, non-combatant American citizens without provocation on September 11, 2001? The folks who take orders from Osama bin Laden?

Yeah, those guys.

So, tell me: how the FUCK could this be considered retaliation, and for WHAT? Are they pissed because only three of their hijacked planes hit targets? Are they dissapointed in their exhorbitant death tolls against innocent people? Are they upset because they are being hunted down like dogs (when Bush bothers to remember them) for their hideous international crimes?

Well, if they are seeking retaliation for that, then they can go fuck themselves. You can argue the merits or lack thereof of the Iraq war all you want, and I will most likely agree with much of what you say. However, if you are actually trying to defend the actions of depraved international terrorists who have chosen carreers as professional killers of the innocent, you are going to get nothing from us but a raft of well-deserved shit. Get your facts straight, think for a second, and perhaps you will be ashamed of yourself. For your sake, I hope so.


No, actually it isn't. There was this little thing called the Geneva Convention where the nations of the world laid down a set of rules for warfare, specifically to denote that all was NOT fair in war. One of the big no-no's is, fucking obviously, killing civilians. So no, it isn't fair. There are laws that say it isn't fair. It is, in fact, decidedly UNfair, as well as wrong, evil and six kinds of fucked up. There is nothing glamorous, or justifiable, or heroic about what those monsters did. Al Qaida exists for one reason: to inflict suffering and death upon their perceived enemies in order to promote their twisted, fanatical ideas about how the world should be. There is no moral or ethical grey area here. These are, quite definitively, the BAD GUYS. They are murderers and criminals, and must be hunted down, captured, brought to justice and made to answer for their crimes. There is no in-between.

My esteemed colleague, StarvingStudent47, once observed that there was a difference between dissent and rooting for the other side. The remarks that you have made in your post are not neutral, or conscientiously objecting, or philosophical or in any way the stance of an opponent of violence or war. They do, however, sound like the ideas of someone who is rooting for the other side. Do you really want to stand up to be counted with the enemies of everything the world holds dear? Seriously, think about it.

If I were you, I would spend a lot of time thinking about what you have posted and what the reactions have been. Then, if you wish to say something to the board, by all means do so. I urge you to look deeply into yourself and ask yourself what you truly believe.

~Nachtzehrer~

Yeah, nobody cares. Like all the people on the board who've been decrying the war, the methods, the torture. We've been harder on the Bush Administration and their war than any media outlet I've yet heard. Who's crying for the Iraquis? The contientous people.



So, on the other hand, you're actually MOCKING the beheading of a totally innocent non-combatant? Well, if all is truly fair, why shouldn't we, as the superior and conquering force, just start executing women and children as our response? Fair? For every American that dies because of car bombs or kidnappings why don't we publicly flay and hang some Iraqui women and children? That'll sure put a damper on the killing of Americans. Hell, why don't we just shuffle all the Iraquis into camps? Fair?

No. It isn't. And just as the actions of the Occupation force are inexcusable in torturing prisoners etc, just so, there is absolutely NO justification for the inhuman murder of an American civilian.

I hope that the family can get some real justice.

Captain Nevarre

Nachtzehrer--

From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU for your posts.

BellaDonna--

About the majority of your post, Nachtzehrer just said everything I was going to.

If you are asserting that I don't give a damn about Iraqi civilians, then you clearly have NO FUCKING CLUE what my stance on the Middle East is. Go back and though the numerous debates that have existed, I don't feel like retyping the stance just this moment. Though I hope that other regulars will agree that, no matter how much they disagree with my vision of international politics, my stance is NOT "let's go kill some ragheads."

And just so you know, BellaDonna, I am to my knowledge the ONLY board regular who supported the War in Iraq FOR ANY REASON, so if that "you" was a "you all" instead of a "you SS," you're in the wrong place.

SS

I read the news very clearly.
And SS...by *you* I meant America as a whole. Not just you, m'dear. If you care about them...then good on you...you're the first I've heard of ever...
And captain...do you not think you slay innocent people everyday...INCLUDING women and children..?? This is happening because of the American casualties.
And Nach...NO, I'm not "rooting" for the other side. I see both sides....and I'm an American, No changing that...BUT...that doesn't mean I have to always agree with everything my fellow Americans agree with, does it? I've thought about what I first posted. I still stand by what I said. Your reactions made me think...and that's what I wanted...But, you didn't pursuade me to think differently. If making this post means I get banned from these forums...so be it. I have my opinions..you have yours.
American soldiers are killing innocent civillians everyday...do you not realize that? Lots of people being killed in Iraq are innocent civillians.



Edited By BellaDonna on 1087626149

Yeah but the Germans killed allot of people during WWII. That doesn't make it fair to go and kill a random German living in the US because of the actions of his homeland government.

Have you ever heard the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right"?

I mean, sheesh. If you really don't get why what you said is wrong, then I doubt any of us are going to be able to convince you.

If someone tortures and murders an innocent civilian for any reason, they have committed an evil act. It doesn't matter who they are, what they stand for or what side they are on. If you want to look back over this very forum, you will find copious outrage over the treatment of Iraqis by Americans, even by those who support the war.

Honestly, this issue goes even deeper than the whole "innocent civilian" ploy. I don't care who this guy was: you just don't kidnap a guy and behead him. If it was Osama bin Laden himself who was treated this way, as much as I think he deserves to die I would still be outraged over this. This was no firefight in which opposing combatants put themselves in harms way, nor was it a part of the due process of international justice. This was murder, plain and simple. It doesn't matter why it was done, or what the relative scale of death for death in this conflict is. Murder is wrong. It just is. You don't just decide to snuff out someone's life because you feel like it. That goes for everyone: Iraqis, Americans, terrorists, pacifists . . . fucking everyone. When people go to war, they take the risk of death. When criminals are captured, they must face justice that is fair and impartial. There was no combatant's risk here, and there sure as shit was no justice. This guy was fucking butchered like an animal. No one, NO ONE deserves that.

Frankly, I think it is sad that some of us, in our disgust at the actions of the Bush administration and our desire to see an end to conflict in the Middle East, allow ourselves to loose sight of the fact that those who pepertrate crimes against their fellow humans must be held accountable. If we deplore Bush's disregard for his own people and the people of the world, we must also point the finger of just remonstration at others whose actions are equally (and, in cases like this, far more) vile and criminal. If we do not look upon all injustice with a critical eye, then we are hypocrites, plain and simple.

I just thought that all of this would be self-evident.

~Nachtzehrer: who hates Bush . . . and despises terrorists~

That's the other thing that's been bothering me the more and more I mull it over. I came up with three theories, and have ruled out two of them.

1) They just dragged some guys in off the street, shot them, and showed the bodies to US officials. Two problems with this theory, though. First, several of those killed were al-Qaeda agents who we've been looknig for ever since the USS Cole bombing. We knew the faces. Second, they guys they killed were in possession of Johnson's remains. US officials confirmed Johnson's identity. So that theory is down the tubes.

2) They're telling the truth--they did all they could before the murder, they couldn't find them, and then they located them 2-3 hours after the videotape was aired. Yeah fucking right. It took the FBI eight YEARS to track down Eric Robert Rudolph. Same for the Unabomber. You don't go from "no idea who they are or where they are" to "we got 'em" in a few hours. Just doesn't happen. So theory #2 out the window. That leaves...

3) They knew exactly who had Johnson and where he was, and they chose not to act on it. That's called "harboring terrorists" in my book. Now, unfortunately, do to that whole "birthplace of Muhammad" crap, we can't introduce the House of Saud to the fine world of Shock and Awe. As sorely tempted as I am to do so over this and many previous incidences. But at the very least, I think we're justfied in ending our reliance on Saudi security agencies. We should use our own forces to secure the safety of our people in-country by whatever means necessary. "National sovereignty" can lick my balls. If terrorists were beheading foreign nationals on American soil, and the USA was harboring said terrorists, I'd say we'd lose our sovereignty over the issue too. So Fuck the House of Saud and fuck their two-faced bullshit "condemnations" of every terrorist act they sponsor. If they don't like it they can just quit taking all that fucking money we give 'em.

SS

Oh yeah, when I become President, I'm instituting a new policy. None of this "one free go" bullshit with terrorism anymore. If we locate an al-Qaeda official, we don't "wait and see" what he does. I'm tired of losing folks like Johnson to this "wait and see" bullshit. If we locate an al-Qaeda official, we take him alive if possible for interrogation, and if that's not possible, we GUN HIS FAT ASS DOWN. If they want war, they get war. Cause we all know what he's GONNA do if we don't act. If someone calls an ex-girlfriend and says "I'm gonna rape you and slit your throat," should we act now or should we "wait and see" to see if he's serious? Of course we should do whatever it takes to make sure his plans never come true.

Same with these fucks. Al-Qaeda exists for one reason and one reason alone: to kill innocents. The status of "al-Qaeda administrator" ALONE should be considered a personal act of war in and of itself, and dealt with accordingly. No more pussy-footing around with terrorist fucks. I'm sick and fucking tired of it.

SS

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want."
- General William T. Sherman