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 Control Those Children!!! 
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Stygia
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I'm playing catch up on this thread.
GothicBfly wrote:
LOL...just came to mind one of my daughter's most hard-headed moments. I got tired of telling her to pick up her toys and her not doing it. So, I got a big trash bag and started throwing them all in. She started screaming as loud as she could for me to not take all her toys away. She got her toys back slowly after being toyless for 2 weeks. Did she learn? Nope! Took them away again...and after a sufficient time of punishment, slowly gave them back. Nope!!!! She didn't start picking up after herself until after she left home! She trashed her bedroom before she left...so much so that before my son took over the room (as it was the biggest one) he had to pull out all the carpet. I started when she was young...very young. Tried rewards if she kept her room clean...that was the first. When the rewards didn't work, then we resorted to punishment. Never sunk in...LOL.


My mom did the same thing to me. She warned me and warned me. I didn't clean it up. She bagged them up and put them in the closet. Only she never gave them back - she donated them to Goodwill. I never did it again.


Wolfmammy wrote:
I read something a while back that stated that babies who are carried in a sling and have contact with their mother more cry less than babies whose parents leave them in a crib.

I've also read (where? where? WHERE?) that 'worn' babies are happier and more independent once they start moving around on their own. I plan to wear my babies (if I ever get to pop any out).

I have a lot of ideas on child rearing and discipline. I'm the oldest of 6 (split families) with 2 older (by nine and 12 years), I was raised partially by my aunt and uncle (big family - big on positive reinforcement, but not to the point of excluding punishment all together.), abused by my stepmother (whoever said "sticks and stones may brake my bones, but names may never hurt me" was a liar. I think names hurt far more than physical violence) and was mostly left to myself after I hit about 13. Abandoned by one parent, picked up, and abandoned by the other (both back in my life now). I've lived with many different parenting styles. I respect my aunt the most.

She never yelled at us. Not once. We had rules and were made to follow them. She was firm in her authority and loving in her discipline - though it wasn't often that we needed it. She home schooled us and taught us how to behave in public. We were made to mind our manners, not interrupt adults (and others) when they were speaking - but we were acknowledged as people as well. (Few things bother me more than when parents blatantly ignore their children, and when they finally turn to them it's in annoyance and anger.) In short, she poured her life and heart into us. <3 I love and respect her probably more than anyone else in my life. Did I mention that she had 6 children all spaced about 2 years apart - plus me? She's the most gracious and loving woman I know.

All that to say, I think good children are directly related to how much time and effort you put into them. If you want to give in because it's easier, if you want to ignore them so you can do what you like with your time - then I wouldn't expect to have very well-behaved children.

And that is all I have to say about that.

That, and I love my aunt.

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Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:03 pm
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
A slightly oldish thread, but a subject my future husband and I just talked about. I don't believe in spanking in the sense that my parents did- I was spanked with everything from a belt, a wooden spoon, and the hand to a riding crop (once only and my mother threw a fit about this), until I had to put my foot down and the spankings stopped. After my rebellion, my parents never spanked again. They did, however, swat. My little brothers did not respond to time out (one of them is ADD and completely unable to sit still for any length of time and time out was complete torture for him and did nothing) and a swat on the ass was more than enough to get them back in line. They also used military "listening drills" which we basically intense exercises with which we were punished for misbehaving. These weren't all that devastating, but we did dread them; they were far more effective than other punishments (particularly the air-chair thing where you bend your knees and sit against the wall, like you were in a chair). It also had the added benefit of me being the only seventh grade girl who could lift more weight with her legs than the boys on the football team (no joke; my legs are still freaking iron).

I will swat my children, but only for major offenses and when other negative reinforcement simply isn't working.

We believe in washing a kid's mouth out with soap- every time we lied, swore, or back-talked, we got our mouths washed out with soap and it worked.

In order to punish my fiance, his family would ground him from his books; I would get grounded from my room. This just tells me that each kid is different and what may work for one kid will not work for another. Kids are good naturally; they just need structure and to know their limits. The world is a big intimidating place for adults- even worse for a little kid. Boundaries help them feel structured and safe. In my opinion though, there is a difference between over-protectiveness and boundaries though.

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Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:24 pm
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
That's all well and good, but the soap thing is just wrong. There's no telling what is in that stuff. Why not just NOT say things you don't want your kids to repeat?

I'm sorry, but sometimes I think people are a bit harsh on children. Harsh in the sense that they don't understand child development. It doesn't dawn on them that children are learning. If you're some person tossed into a country where you can't understand the language and you're hungry and tired but people keep smacking you when you don't understand instead of gently teaching you and guiding you.
http://www.positive-parents.org/2011/08 ... nting.html I love this shit right here. When I have kids, I want to teach them and guide them and not hit them, not see them as bad when they make mistakes and NOT raise them the way my parents raised me because there's got to be better more progressive ways than that that respect the child.

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Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:18 pm
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Manisha
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
Crome, I decided to look at the site, and honestly it made me laugh:

Quote:
If traditional methods of parenting (spanking, grounding, yelling, controlling) really work so well, why is our society filled with intolerance, violence, hate, and crime?


The reason it no longer works so well is because the government got involved and started telling us how to raise our children. Psychology (as much as I love it) didn't help the situation any.

Government fucked our kids over, not the way we discipline them....unless of course you are a poor excuse of a parent who does nothing for your kids and reinforces no discipline at all.

-Midi
Who is voicing her opinion.

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Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:29 pm
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
*sigh* I don't agree. I'm glad we have things in place to protect children. When my mother was growing up that stuff didn't exist. She said she was hit with belts, extension cords and all sorts of stuff and her 10 other brothers and sisters too. It didn't stop until she threatened to call these services on my grandfather.
Then, when I lived with her she turned around and hit me with belts over stupid things even as I was having chemo.
So, screw people and their desire to discipline children by hitting them. I'm tired of it. People have no empathy for children at all, and it makes me angry. You can discipline children without hitting them. It's warped that I go on facebook and say, be more compassionate towards children and folks will jump on me about how they need discipline, but when if I say they need to be hit to be disciplined a bunch of people will agree with me.
It's warped.
Truth is, that stuff may work for some people, but are the side effects worth it? All that stuff just made me afraid of my mother and grateful that I didn't live my entire life with her lest I'd be worse off than I already am. When I have kids none of that hitting nonsense. You can't even treat a dog like that. I do not want to raise kids with fear instead of love and trust. It's what's really messed up. Not enough love and trust, too much shame and fear, all of these so called experts telling people to do things to children that go against our instincts, like making them CIO or trying to train them for stuff their brains aren't even ready for.

I'll say it again; kids can be disciplined without pain. It's probably much better for them in the long run, but it takes more effort and that's all having kids really is. Lots of effort.

_________________
Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:21 am
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
Chromesthesia, there is a marked difference between beating a child with an extension cord, and occasionally swatting a child on the rump with one's hand.

But there are some intrusive souls out there who will call Child Protective Services on parents because they perceive mild forms of discipline as "child abuse." (I think this may be what Midi was referring to.) Parents are becomming increasingly afraid to discipline their children these days, or even parent their children, because of how other people judge them.

Until you have children of your own, you really are in no position to judge parents who sometimes opt for the swift swat method of startling an out-of-control child, or otherwise delivering a serious message, such as: "mommy was very, very angry when you suddenly dashed out into the middle of traffic without looking."

I don't think I could hit a child, either – but I don't have children of my own to contend with. I'm afraid the reality of actually raising children trumps idealistic child-rearing philosophies.

-- Nephele
P.S. I do agree with you that "the soap thing is just wrong." And also hot sauce, that I hear some parents make their children swallow. I draw a line at putting foreign objects into children's mouths as a form of discipline.


Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:01 am
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I wish people would not SAY that.
It makes it seem like the second I get kids I'm going to immediately break every single vow I have to them and just start swatting away.

I'm sorry, I was a kid. I have the right to judge. I just do. The attitude people have towards children just frustrates me. It's so negative. I grew up with it, surrounded by people like that and too much fear and shame even when I didn't live with my mother. There were other relatives who would nag, threaten, tear me down. It's time people become aware that this sort of thing is wrong. Most of these people, like a former stepmother of mine went through the same thing. She was abused by her father like my mother was abused and she was more than harsh towards me as well.
No, there has to be a better way to not pass this stuff down! Every since I learned about attachment while learning about adoption and the issues children can face when it comes to it it has been my goal to advocate for children as much as I can.

Also to unbrainwash myself from these attitudes and learn more about children, how their brains work and how to raise them without fear.

Raising kids should not mean I have to hit and swat and go down that path when I don't want to. Even if I don't have kids, doesn't mean I don't have the right to speak up for them. I'm not various religions or races and all, but I can speak up for their rights and freedoms and such and to do something about prejudice, so why don't I, who has been a kid raised this way, not have the right to not only make sure I don't do stuff like this when I'm a parent, but fight against other folks thinking of their tiny kids as being bad rather than learn about them?

Also, that was horrible grammar.
That fact is, I just don't believe we have any business at all hitting children in any way if there's other solutions you can learn about before you even have kids. And one way to start is to stop thinking about kids as being "bad" or a burden or whatever and th ink of them differently.

_________________
Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:13 am
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I'm sorry you had such an awful childhood, but you need to understand that parents who opt for the swat on the backside are NOT child abusers. Nor does it mean that they view their children as "bad" or a "burden." (To even suggest such a thing to parents here sounds incredibily hurtful.) Nor does it mean that they don't employ other means of discipline, as well, that don't involve swatting.

Good luck with your plans for when/if you have children of your own.

-- Nephele


Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:30 am
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
There just has to be a better way though. I empathize a lot more with the kid than the parent. I imagine that being swatted like that doesn't... well... feel that good to the child. If there's a better, gentler way, I hope more folks find that because I couldn't even swat a mate if they made some sort of mistake or one of my crayfish for that matter, so why should folks be able to swat a child anyway? I think that sort of thing should stop, but no idea how to do that...

_________________
Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:56 am
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Manisha
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
Thank you Nephele, that is how I meant it.

As most know here, my sister had her children TAKEN FROM HER because of CPS, all because of a false aligation and the state's grabby hands with people's kids. They were adopted to other families and we haven't seen them since. Her other children whom she later were taken away. Luckily I was old enough to take them in and my sister was allowed to fight to reclaim her rights as a mom- and won.

Not all swatting is child abuse and I dare anyone to tell me that I am beating my children because I'm not. And that is just how I feel about it. I love my children and half the time I am scared to discipline them or do anything along any lines because of just how easy the state can take my kids.

My sister, to this day is in such fear of CPS that she hides and doesn't let anyone know where she is (I haven't seen her kids since she got them back). She does it because people find out she had her kids taken so they call CPS on her thinking she's a bad mom and she's not. At least 2 times a year my sister's parenting is called in even though she's a good parent.

All because people think she beats her kids and can't mind their own damn business. My family was ripped apart by CPS though it was uncalled for. Yes, I believe in swatting your kids, no i don't believe it is child abuse. There is a fine line between child abuse and discipline and I am not one of those of crosses it.

Again, I love my kids and I have a problem (and even fear) anyone who might even hint that they believe I'm abusing them. Nothing in this life will make me hate or dislike someone more than them calling me a bad (or worse: abusive) parent.

I am not saying that you are calling me such, Chrome, but I needed to make my voice clear on this subject.

ETA:

Again, I'm sorry if this sounded harsh- I didn't mean for it to be so.

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"And what if you could have genetic perfection? Would you change who you are if you could?"
-The Graverobber; Repo! The Genetic Opera


Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:27 am
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I can't help sounding a bit harsh. I just wish this hitting kids thing would go away. And it bothers me when CPS takes kids from people who are not abusive and ignores real abuse. The system needs some reforms.

_________________
Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:03 am
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Phlegethos
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I think that a light swat has its place. IMO I don't personally think it appropriate to use as a first line of discipline. I'm also not a big fan of yelling, either.

However, in a case where a child's behavior is putting them into immediate danger, like touching a hot stove or playing in a dangerous place, both yelling and a swat can be useful to communicate the immediate need for behavioral change. I don't think it would work the same should these methods be used in an every day capacity, as it would normalize the stimulus to the point where the child would ignore it not realizing that the circumstances are special.

The most effective (and most difficult) method for every day sorts of behavior correction is just talking to them and explaining what is wrong with what they're doing... it doesn't work immediately, it takes a lot of work, effort and patience. Its not terribly effective when one does not see the child regularly, however, I'd rather do that than hit a child. Mind you, I don't think this method works on every child or for every parent.

If there's anything I've learned, its that a parent/child relationship is a very personal thing, and every one has their own methods. As long as a child is not being beaten, neglected or emotionally abused, I feel its none of my business to intercede.

All of this is just my opinion. I am no expert, nor am I a parent. I am going on a lifetime of auntie-hood, and observation.


Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:12 am
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Manisha
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I agree. No one should judge a person's parenting harshly or call them bad parents because of their discipline method, so long as they are non-abusive about it and are not neglecting their kids. If someone calls me a bad parent because I swat my kids every once in a while then they'd better steer clear of me just as I would steer clear of them. There are a lot of good parents out there that swat, and a lot of good ones that don't and its not right to say one is better than the other simply because you don't prefer it. It's different for everyone and so long as the children aren't being abused or neglected- then it is no one's place to judge that family or to interfere.

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-The Graverobber; Repo! The Genetic Opera


Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:25 am
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Cania
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
Wow...just catching up on this topic.

Both my kids received swats when they were younger, but it was ONLY after all other punishments failed to work. Grounding, taking away of privileges, canceling fun planned events...these were all things that were used first. If the behavior continued, we kept turning it up a notch, until the ONLY thing left was swats for the repeated offense. We always explained to them why they were being punished...with all punishments...and what we expected their behavior to be. We also made it a point after the swat to hug the child, as we reassured them we loved them, we just cannot tolerate the behavior.

Now, swats were NEVER given for minor stuff...I mean, if they forgot to take the trash out for the 50th time, that didn't warrant swats. Lying and disrespect were the offenses that would eventually lead to a swat. As much as possible, we tried to make the punishment fit the crime, and for the most part that worked. Didn't do your spelling work and failed the spelling test because of it? The next week you were writing the words an extra 5 times each (and I say extra, because the teacher usually had them write each word 5 times...so they would have to write each word a total of 10 times as punishment for not doing their work on the last spelling week). Since we have 2 kids that were with us full time (my step-daughter is only with us on weekends), the chores were split between the kids. If one didn't do their chores, then the next day, they had to do all the chores, and the child that did the chores as they were supposed to got a day off. This was especially the case because we rotated the chores...so if my daughter didn't do dishes on Monday when it was her day, there was no reason my son should have to do 2 days worth of dishes when he did his chore of taking out all the trash. In high school (as one is now grown and on her own and the other is still in high school), if you don't make curfew, then for the next month your curfew time is made earlier. It is a bit embarrassing to have to be home by 8 or 9 on a Friday night when all your friends get to stay out until 10 or later. If we call you while you are out and you don't answer the phone or immediately call us back, then you lose the privilege of going out for a while. Fail a class, you may also lose your going out privs. These are all things that the kids know from the get go, so if they choose to break the rule knowing the consequence, they must think breaking the rule is worth the consequence, and that is something they have to live with.

My kids have not had easy lives...both of their lives started out rough. My daughter's father split when I was still pregnant, and my son's father (whom I married) slowly abandoned my son shortly after we divorced after 5 years of marriage. My ex-husband was also abusive. Both my kids were later adopted by my husband, but the damage had already been done...it is tough on a kid to have a parent turn their back on them! The feelings related to the abandonment created their own issues, but in the end, they are both pretty good kids...even with the occasional spankings. My daughter went through her really rough spell, but has turned her life around...went back to high school and graduated (not a GED, but actually walked back into the high school at 20 years old and finished...took a heck of a lot of gutts), is now working, and is engaged to a great guy. She has surely beat the odds...being the child of a teen parent, and the statistics that say she was more likely to become a teen parent herself....no kids at age 20. My son is well on his way to getting a scholarship to play football at a Division I college, and I seriously believe his dream of playing for the NFL will be a reality for him. He wants nothing to do with alcohol or drugs after seeing what they did to his father, and just has his eyes set on his dream. Not bad, in my opinion, for a couple of kids who got spankings when they were younger. :)

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Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:42 am
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Control Those Children!!!
I'm seriously considering adopting special needs children in the future when I am more mature.
I'm not sure if you're really allowed to swat children who have had worse than a swat on the butt because it might hurt them more. So I've been doing a ton of research for several years about the topic. I do apologize if I come up a bit sharp and harsh, I just really wish folks would not bother with the swatting at all, let alone the stuff like with my mother -_- urgh.
But, yeah, that is something I really want to do. Maybe when I'm 40 or something. Those kids need homes like you wouldn't believe. I also want to become a foster parent too, but again, maturity, and more research because that's going to be kind of difficult, but worth it because there's a dearth of good foster homes.

-- Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:41 pm --

I'm seriously considering adopting special needs children in the future when I am more mature.
I'm not sure if you're really allowed to swat children who have had worse than a swat on the butt because it might hurt them more. So I've been doing a ton of research for several years about the topic. I do apologize if I come up a bit sharp and harsh, I just really wish folks would not bother with the swatting at all, let alone the stuff like with my mother -_- urgh.
But, yeah, that is something I really want to do. Maybe when I'm 40 or something. Those kids need homes like you wouldn't believe. I also want to become a foster parent too, but again, maturity, and more research because that's going to be kind of difficult, but worth it because there's a dearth of good foster homes.

_________________
Just like a feeling that you're sending out
I pick it up
But I can`t let you go
If I let you go
You slip into the fog.-Kate Bush, The Fog. Best song EVER


Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:41 am
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