This is what's currently playing on Canada's National News, The National.

Basically I'd like to know your views on polygamy are, how you think we should addresse cults such as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, all the while respecting human rights and the constutional rights of both Canada (as the subject for this thread is in B.C.) and America (as their headquarters is in the U.S.A.).
As a side note, I'd like to point out that the last time police cracked down on the headquarters in America, the raid turned into a political and human rights scandall as wives were seperated from their husband and children taken unto child care, ripping family life apart for a great many people.

As usual I'll be reading your replies much more than I'm likely to be posting.

Personally, I don't see any reason at all why people shouldn't be able to have whatever kind of marriage they want. As long as the spouses wish to be married and the children are being taken care of, why should it be anyone else's business? I don't feel that it should be the government's place to make moral judgements on people's beliefs and emotions, and that's one reason that I feel that marriage shouldn't be a legal institution.

The only problem I've seen concerning these groups is that there have been reports in the past of forced marriage and sexual abuse.

As kitsune said, so long as it's consensual on every side, I don't see why the government has any business stepping in and tearing families apart. It's just another case of the government being influenced by mainstream religion's take on the definition of marriage.

Now, while I don't really agree with the Mormon viewpoint on women's apparent subservient role in the world, I have yet to hear of a woman who was a Mormon and married against her will. I know that the group in question isn't connected with mainstream Mormons which I'm familiar with, but that's the main point of reference I have on such groups.

I think that the way these "cults" as Spidey put it should be addressed is that we should leave them alone. Unless they're doing something harmful like killing people and such, it's not mine or the government's place to tell them who and how to love.

I agree with kitsune and Lunamoth, if they aren't hurting anyone or forcing anyone to do anything agaist thier will, then the government should leave them alone.

And as far as Mormons go, Lunamoth also has it right on. They don't really have a liberal view on roles of women and support these rolls with very weak, barely logical defenseive arguemnts, however, no woman is married off against her choice and it does *not* condone polygamy and certainly not for the reason people think. Members practicing polygamy are excommunicated.

The original supporting argument was that during the times when the Mormon faith was still fairly new and growing vastly, they were all moving out to what is now Utah and Nevada, and they got into several skirmishes with other groups of people (who was at fault, I don't know, but there were some conflicts) and a lot of men were killed during these or they just died during the hard move out. This was at a time when a woman needed a man to take care her, so the surviving men had to take these 'extra' women and their children to help them survive.

However, one of the beliefs of Mormonism, listed as Article of Faith, number twelve "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." and since polygamy has been outlawed and is no longer necessary, it is no longer in practice. Basically, most Mormons honestly believe a marriage between one woman and one man, like the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, to be ideal.

Like any other group though, there have been disagreements with how things are fun, and there have been several different offshoots that seperated from the followings of whom Mormons consider the one, true, living prophet of God and while they may bear a similar name, they are not related to the Latter Day Saints.

Okay, I think that's enough ranting for tonight...

daladus

I agree with kitsune, Lunamoth, and daladus.

The thing only I dislike about it is the fact the kids have to quit school at some point because it only goes up the grade 10(it's somewhere in This interview). I think they should be able to continue school if they wish. And then if they decide "well maybe I don't want to be married yet, I think I'd like to go to college or something like that" they would be able to do that, having finished highschool, then they could come back later and be married.

I'm with Luna, while at this point in my life I dont want to practice polygamy, if all parties are WILLING and of sound mind when the decision is made then I see no harm unless the law pretty much says 'No Polygamy ever' In which case it coems down to which is more important religious law or state law.

The reason why I used the word "cult" was in reference only to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
My reasons are simple: they trade and move women around like cattle. The women themselves have no way out unless they run away (some do wish to leave) and in some locations every police officer in the area is part of the ring (which is why the state can never maintain a whatchful eye over the people). The individual families are all controlled by a center man (a "prophet") who shuts them off from the outside world, making for a very isolated and often-times barely educated group of individuals.
What's more is that the women are also told that they are not permitted into heaven if they do not do as their husbands tell them to, or fulfill their desires.
In short, if you don't do what you're told, you go to hell.

Obviously I think it's alright if all individuals are conscentual. However, my point was, so I thought, straight forward and simple: along side with your views, what do you think the Canadian and American governements should do?

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I am of the oppinion that all polygamists follow a cult, as my beliefs aren't so. Once again, I was only refferring to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, using the very words of one of the past members.

Ahh there, I didnt see anywhere that iot wasnt consented to by all parties.

Concerning the women themselves, I'm mainly bothered that they are given no help from the community if they wish to leave.
Also, allow me to insert a quote.

If there is any suspected criminal activity, there should be an investigation. It goes without saying that the law enforcement officials involved should be highly trained and sensitive to the beliefs of the religious group. Anyone breaking the law should be tried, and any woman or child who feels they would be happier outside the group should be allowed to leave (and given an escort if they feel unsafe). I'm sure there would be many advocacy groups that would be happy to help.

Ideally, the government would overlook the polygamy as enforcing it would be similar to making a law restricting someone's religion, but this isn't a perfect world.

While this is true for most "mainstream" mormon groups, there are a few off the radar ones that do marry women off against their will, and practice polygamy.

A few months ago a story broke about some of the more cultish mormon groups that own swaths of private land in the middle of nowhere in Utah and Nevada or wherever, and 2 girls had finally escaped from there and those kinds of situations.



Lilith

I seen that story on Montel. I believe it was called "the order" They forced a 15 year old to marry her cousin, who was also her nephew! A missionary finally convinced her to get out, and she is now living a normal life, and she pressed incest charges on her cousin/nephew/husband, and he is now serving time.

Yeah. Though the story I read was a different one I think, but there have been several incidents like this.

It does happen, though it's very important to realise that this isn't stuff that's condoned by the Mormon church, the mainstream well-known version anyway.

Every group has it's extreme whackos, that's the Mormon church's version.



Lilith

His first wife Jane,

[/quote]
This is probibly way off but;
Kinda reminds me of a King of the Hill Episode...
What's your name?
Jane
And your's?
Jane
You're both named Jane?
We're all Janes now.
We love you Jane...we love you... :b

Of course in this case it's polygamists instead of meat deprived Janes.

Nachty fun fact:

My first serious girlfriend became a polyamorist (not exactly the same as a polygamist, but fairly close) pretty much right after our relationship ended.

I have to admit that as an 18 year old, that was a damn big pill to swallow. However, it definitely opened my eyes to the fact that one-on-one matrimonial pairings, while certainly the majority, are not the end all and be all of acceptable human relationships. Personally, I could not imagine being married to, or even significantly involved with more than one person at a time, but I know several well-adjusted, caring people who are quite happy doing just that. When it comes to love, I don't believe in assigning black and white judgments so long as all involved are consenting adults. Love is love, regardless of the form it takes.

If folks sincerely want to marry each other, in any combination of gender and/or number, I think that the only crime is in standing in their way. The world can be a pretty cold place, and I know first hand that the best way to warm it up is to wrap yourself up in a fluffy blanket of love. In my case, said blanket is made up of just one woman, and she was hard enough to find; if other folks manage to complete their souls through less "conventional" means, I wish them nothing but the very best.

Love, like morality, is both impossible and inhumane to legislate.

~Nachtzehrer~