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 Strike against Iranian nuclear power 
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Maladomini
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Post Strike against Iranian nuclear power
UK military steps up plans for Iran attack amid fresh nuclear fears

There is some evidence in the european press, that there will be a strike aginst Iranien nuclear plants. Stuxnet that virus that was created to delay the Iranian nuclear program, which is supposed to be a hidden attempt to build nukes could not stop that program for long. Israel is not willing to live under the threat and the Prime Minister Netanjahu dicussed prevention measures. The attack on the nuclear plant which is supposed to be the place where they build the A-Bomb would probably cause a new war in the Middle East. Are we readdy to rumble, or should we better wait whether Iran killes the Jews or not? It's just a push on the button. A few minutes later israel is done. The President of Iran is very antisemitic, abnegates the Shoa and wants to kill Israel as he said in public years before.

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In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:57 am
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I say go for it, Israel. It was obvious from the start Iran was interested in nukes, and maybe while they're at it they can take care of the insurgents staging there in preparation to destabilize Iraq.

Israel knows more about the middle east than we ever could, and if they see a danger with Iran having nukes that threatens their existence it needs to be addressed.

-- Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:23 am --

I say go for it, Israel. It was obvious from the start Iran was interested in nukes, and maybe while they're at it they can take care of the insurgents staging there in preparation to destabilize Iraq.

Israel knows more about the middle east than we ever could, and if they see a danger with Iran having nukes that threatens their existence it needs to be addressed.

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Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:23 am
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
The question is why do they tell their plans to the world before? Some think, Israel don't want an airstrike or something like that. They just want more sanctions again Iran. The system is not stable there and an assault from outside could stabilize it. It would be stupid to tell the Iranians before. Maybe there isn't any military use of nuclear power. Although the IAE asserted it in it's last report, we all remember the non existing weapons of mass destruction in Irak. The reason of the war against Irak was a complete fake. Another problem is, an air strike would throw them back, but in a few years they probably would have the potential again to build the A-Bomb.

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In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:59 am
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Cania
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
Israel used air strikes to take out Iraq's nuclear program. It was more successful than the UN Inspectors ever were.

There is a book called The Bomb In My Garden by an Iraqi nuclear scientist who talks about how close Saddam had gotten to a nuke that is well worth reading. It was the Israelis, not the UN or the US, that did the most to prevent things from going further.

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Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:09 am
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I don't know whether Saddam Hussein ever was able to build an A-Bomb, but it is a fct that the justification for the second Iraq war was a fake. They never found chemical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It's a difficult situation. No one knows exactly whether Iran builds an A-Bomb or not. Even when, Israel already got nuclear weapons, but don't threatens the Iranians with mass destruction, like the Iranian Prime Minister does. Even the Gouvernment of Israel is not in agreement whether a preventive strike makes sence or not. In a long range Israel will loose it's technological advantage and a peace process is the only way to ensure it's existence, but no one expects that the Israelis bet their lifes on that.

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In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:56 am
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Cania
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
demon17 wrote:
I don't know whether Saddam Hussein ever was able to build an A-Bomb,


He tried, but wasn't able to because of the Israelis.

Quote:
but it is a fct that the justification for the second Iraq war was a fake.


The scientist actually talks about this in the book, and explains how this shows what little anyone actually knew about their nuclear program [besides the Israelis]. The evidence we paraded in front of the UN was stuff we said had to do with wmd proliferation, but in reality had nothing at all to do with the real wmd programs Saddam was running at the time. Nor was our "evidence" stuff Saddam had planted to try to trick us. We were interpreting things as things that we shouldn't have.

Quote:
They never found chemical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


No, and we still wouldn't have known about their real nuclear program had the author of this book never come forward. Thankfully he wasn't a bath-party fanatic or we still wouldn't know.

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Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:40 am
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
It's just one author sgath. There are so much lies in policy and without a free press there often is no validation possible. It was in the eigthies I think and there were different possibilities to avoid a nucleaer weaponry of Iraq. I don't believe that it was still current, because Bush and Blair would have used every argument to reason the second Iraq war. Please don't forget that it was a violation of the international law. An airstrike against Iran would be a violation too. Many smaller countries don't like that. But of course no one expects Israel to wait until it's too late. But even a boss of the Israelian secret service is against an air strike. (So far I'm informed through the German press.)

_________________
In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:09 am
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Cania
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
demon17 wrote:
I don't believe that it was still current, because Bush and Blair would have used every argument to reason the second Iraq war.


Keeping the story low key was covering our own asses for the fact that we practically gave Saddam the bomb by letting his scientists have access to normally restrictive documents here in the United States. They wouldn't have been able to do enrichment without us.

I don't have the book with me on the road, so I forget whether it was a government facility or a university archive but two of the scientists actually came here, literally walked into an archive and asked to see some early cold war era designs by simply saying "Hi, we are from the Iraqi nuclear program and would like to take a look at cat log no. ___, which I know you have to sign in to see and get approved but we just want to take a glance at it first to make sure its the document we want to see before we jump through all the red tape."

Really! So they let them look at it first. Then they said "sorry, this isn't what we needed" and went home.

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Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:38 am
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I still remember that Iraq bought a lot of equipment from small engineering companies in Germany. That's the problem, we have good relations to the middle east countries and German business always is involved somehow. Even in the Iranian nuclear program. A Russian company is building Busheer, their only nuclear power plant. Their partner is Siemens who started to build that plant in the sixties or seventies. I hope they will have a succesful revolution in Iran real soon.

_________________
In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:55 am
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I am not sure I believe that there no WMDs in Iraq, although not for the reasons that one might think. I am not pro-Brush. But I believe that the situation was far more complex than we will ever really know. I have a friend who is who writes for an international intelligence publication. His mentor attended an intelligence symposium held in London, in 2006, I believe, but I could be wrong about the date. One of the primary topics of this symposium was allegations by a minor US official that Russian Spetznaz and GRU troops removed WMD's from Iraq prior to the US invasion. (I can give details on this but it would be boring.) The original evidence came from Ukrainian intelligence officials and a British operative. This was totally dismissed by Washington and the CIA. The official was reprimanded and blackballed by his superiors. "Huh? that makes no sense!", most people say. "Bush would have jumped at the chance to show evidence that WMD's existed." Not necessarily. Revealing the scope of Russia's role would have alienated Russia at a time when Bush desperately needed Russia's cooperation in the Middle East, particularly regarding Iran. (And we still do.) Also, much of the funding for Iraqi weapons programs came indirectly from global corporations, some of whom contributed to Republican campaign coffers, involving sleight of hand in the "oil for food" program. So in the end, it was better to eat the accusations of "no WMDs" than to acknowledge what actually occurred. They hoped that the whole issue would be rendered moot by a successful rebuilding of Iraq, which of course, did not happen.

And it's worth asking : who was the original source of the media's "no WMD" reports? The CIA.


Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:34 pm
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I just can cite foreign minister Joschka Fisher. "I'm not convinced" As far as I'm informed the main source for information about wmds was an Iraquian renegade who cooperates with the BND (Germany's CIA). They didn't believe him but reported his information to the NATO partners. America and England used his information to reason the second Iraq war in that CIA report about Iraq.

_________________
In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:53 pm
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Nessus
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
I'm not sure which worries me more, that there weren't any WMD and it was just a pretense for an oilgrab or that there WERE and their existence was politically expedient to coverup....


Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:55 pm
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Malbolge
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
Well at the very least Saddam isn't in power anymore. I mean....he wasn't the nicest person to ever live. Just ask the Kurds.

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Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:59 pm
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Nessus
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
There is that. On the other hand, better the devil you know etc. It's hard to see the path not taken when things are as murky as this.


Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:36 pm
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Maladomini
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Post Re: Strike against Iranian nuclear power
It was a perfect balance between Iraq and Iran. They hated each other and neutralized their power. Now Saudi-Arabia must play the part of Iran. I've got a friend . She got a big family in the middle east. The first years after the war, the situation was much worse for the people because their was so much terror and civil war. I mean all in all the people in Iraq at least have a chance that their civil rights will be respected in future, but strategically it was not clever to strengthen Iran through the Iraq war.

_________________
In diesen Nächten tanzen kalte Sterne starre Reigen.
Am Grab der Träume suchen Schatten nach Vergangenheit,
verloren, längst zerrissen von der Hysterie der Zeit.
Die Stille herrscht am Grab und selbst die Eulen schweigen.
Ein Traum zerbricht ...


Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:11 am
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