Some choose to escape.

Others stay. To my mind, this says that they are happy being vile, loathsome excuses for humanity, and as they've made their choice, they deserve everything that comes to them, in this life and the next - in which, I'm sure, even Hell will spit their disgusting carcasses out as being Unwanted.

I thought that central to christianity was the principle 'do treat others in the same way you want them to treat you'. As well as 'judge others in the same way you want to be judged'. Perhaps I don't phrase them very eloquently, and I'm not even sure about the second one being in christianity (if it's not, I think it's still a good idea to consider once in a while). That being said, I do not understand how Phelps c.s. come to an understanding of the christian religion that makes it morally okay to protest at other people's funerals. Would they want other people protesting at their funerals? I can hardly believe they would. I really do not understand it, and it feels very wrong to me.

I do think freedom of (and from, if that's what someone desires) religion is very important. Grown people with sound minds should be free to join any idiotic sect that pleases them.

I do think freedom of speech/expression is very important.

However, I do also feel that you ought to know that there are proper times and proper places and proper ways to use freedom of speech, and that on some occasions it's not appropriate to do so.

It's not doable to code the appropriate and inappropriate situations in the law in which you can and cannot use freedom of speech, so in that respect I can understand the decision somewhat. But I cannot imagine that the members of parliament who wrote that law - or the members of the supreme court - ever had in mind that freedom of expression would be used to justify doing something so insensitive as to go and protest at other people's funerals.

This is very true and reminds me a lot of Repo: The Genetic Opera. We are more than the sum of our parts if we ever choose to raise above them.




Judge not lest ye be judged. For with what judgement ye judge it shall be judged to ye again and what measure ye mete shall be measured to you again. -Holy Bible, King James Version. Book of Matthew Chapter 7, verses 1-2.

I do not believe that do unto others as you would have them do unto you is in the bible. It is a golden rule and the bible kinda says it (such as love your neighbor as yourself) but i do believe it was an eastern religion (I want to say Confucius) that said the quote of "do unto others..."

Here is the quote : Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.
—Confucius, Analects XV.24 (tr. David Hinton)

But some of them should be castrated at the same time.

Wasn't there something like this existing in psychology, that the more parents are "tough" and "not-nice" (well, you know what I mean) the more children become dependant on them and seek their approval? (well, I definitely read this somewhere, I just don't know how accurate it was)

I wonder how many "normal" (=non westboro) people would be just like them if they only grew up in that family.

I would love to see an experiment done to learn just that. However such an experiment would be immoral....

I love the words of Skinner myself, and have always thought long about it:

I very much agree with everything you said. While I believe what they are doing at funerals is NOT freedom of speech but verbal assaults, I still pity them, it is sad some can be so deluded. Sure they have a right have a church that preaches hatred but lets keep it in that church or a public environment, not at something as personal as a funeral.

The saddest thing is that the kids, who are innocent will be brainwashed by these scum bags.

Thank you for the Skinner quote! If his theory is right then it's... very interesting. Really makes me wonder about the whole identity thing, if such basic things could be so easily controlled by others.

And, as long as Phelps's children didn't all have some genetic issues, I think we can guess that if they were put in normal families they should be no more crazy than an average normal person? (Ohh, that would be interesting!) Anyway, only 4 out of 13 seem to have broken away from the church (well, I assume that that is what "estranged from family" means..). I'm not sure what to think of it, though...

I, too, feel pity on any child in this congregation! I pray that they may one day see the light and know the real truth...that God hates no one! Sure, He may be disappointed in us at times when we don't do as we should (and only He is the judge of what punishment, if any, we should have to endure and what is truly against His way for us). I want to ask these people: do you HATE your children when they don't obey you? I know I don't hate my kids no matter what, and I know a love like that can only come from that which the Father has put in my heart! No wonder people hate Christians with groups like this spreading THEIR (not God's) messages of hate! Again, I am so thankful to be in a church that spreads messages of love!

My favorite quote of all time, 'There is just enough religion in the world to teach us how to hate, but not enough to love!' So true, and so sad!

The Phelps clan is only going to continue to grow, unless they're put down ASAP. Just waitin for the day someone is brave enough to burn their church to the ground...

I'd love to see these people go try these stunts in say, Libya? Just about any middle eastern country, they'd have to change their signs around a bit, but still. Why don't they protest in Japan in earthquake zones? Why only show so much love in such a small part of the world?

cause they'd get killed anywhere else...

The popularity of the Golden Rule is thanks to its inclusion in the reported preachings of Christ: Matthew 7:12 (The Message)

12"Here is a simple, rule-of-thumb guide for behavior: Ask yourself what you want people to do for you, then grab the initiative and do it for them. Add up God's Law and Prophets and this is what you get.

I also wish Christians would realise that the Wiccan code of "An it harm none, do as though wilt" is actually in accordance with the Christian principle of freedom from dumb religious rules. Most so-called Christians have forgotten that it says in Matthew 10-11 "He then called the crowd together and said, "Listen, and take this to heart. It's not what you swallow that pollutes your life, but what you vomit up."

So basically, dumb rules about dress and diet and music are meaningless, it's how we treat one another that counts.

I have a very mainstream, well-meaning friend who would love to give me a make-over, mainly because that's the sort of thing she'd love for someone to do for her. Clearly, what she'd love someone to do unto her is not what I'd care for having done unto me.

Additionally, we all know of certain people who justify their religious witnessing to us because they feel that, if they themselves were living in "ignorance," they would want someone to "enlighten" or "save" them. In that respect, the Westboro Baptist Church is practicing the Golden Rule by doing unto others as they (in their crazyass way) would want others to do unto them.

Screw the Golden Rule. I propose this Rule: Do unto others only what they ask you to do unto them, or leave them alone entirely. Don't presume that everyone wants the same things that you want.

-- Nephele

The kids are the ones that my heart goes out to... I was watching a documentary about the Phelps family once, and they were standing in the street holding placards, and one little boy had a full carton of soft drink from a drive thru thrown at him from a moving car! Imagine if there had been something other than drink in that cup!

-- Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:32 pm --


Some people are stronger than others... some are lucky to be able to find out that there are other religious options out there... some have ties that are too close to break - lose your entire family or stay where you are. If you don't have the means to be able to take care of yourself then your options are limited, to say the least.

Some never know that what they are doing is vile, because they have no idea of the right way to behave. They are raised from birth to believe in things that the rest of the world find morally repugnant... they have never seen both sides of that coin, and I would imagine that some are even too afraid to even question their elders because they have been told to never do that. They are denied access to tools that could help them make informed decisions and by the time they are adults the damage has been done (and in some cases is irreversible - how does someone change their programming without outside help from therapists, etc?) So what can they do?

It's the same with all cults (and I see WBC as a cult)... the ones that can get out are the lucky ones.

Love it!

I think it is more that you treat others the way you want to be treated...with kindness, respect, etc. But, yeah...love it, Nephele!

I would have to sadly agree with the courts on this one, they have the right to free speech, just like I have the right to get in their face and tell them "FUCK YOU!"... But this makes it interesting, because cops arrest people left and right all the time for "disturbing the peace" when this is actually disturbing the peace... I mean you have a funeral not to far away... My step dad is in the military and I come from a family with a strong military tradition, and I would hate for one of these fuckers to be there... But I know they wont, I haven't seen them protest at a hispanic or black funeral, for obvious reasons... 2 words, drive by...