As if there wasn't enough cynicism about the education system, now there are teachers who have come out and admitted that they form opinions about students before they even meet them, based on their names.

Non-traditional Names Linked to Teacher Discrimination

The above article from Germany (and others like it regarding similar surveys in the U.K. and the U.S.) has made the rounds of a number of baby-naming sites, with self-identifying teachers on these sites actually agreeing that children with certain names are troublesome.

It's always been my view that often children will either live up to or down to the best or worst of our expectations. So, I'm more inclined to believe that teachers who make assumptions about children's behavior based solely on their like or dislike for that child's name, are probably doing something themselves to that child (like sending subtle messages) that is affecting that child's behavior in the classroom.

Those who defend the teachers insist that it's the "lower-class" families who give their children odd names, and that one can expect children with behavioral problems to come from "lower-class" families. I say bullshit to that crap, too. And it's not as though I don't have experience with children from various economic backgrounds in much the same way that teachers have, as I was a children's librarian for some years before I started running my public library. (I particularly despise that term "lower-class.")

I finally had enough of this crap, and responded on one of these baby-name message boards (where these teachers were being defended), with the following: "Believing that a child will be 'troublesome' on account of his name is like believing in voo-doo."

I imagine we may have goth parents here who have chosen to give their children names that aren't exactly mainstream, or who are planning to give future children non-traditional names. I'm not talking about something that is way out there, like "Deathgoblin" or "Sanguinaria." But perhaps names like "Winter" or "Melusine." But even if you're not inclined to give your child a gothy name -- there's no avoiding the fact that your child's teacher may have prejudices against names you wouldn't imagine having anything "wrong" with them.

How would you feel knowing that your child's teacher has pre-judged your child based on his or her name?

-- Nephele

A cousin of mine teaches in literally the worst area of Dublin, teaching the very lowest level of primary education. According to her the children at that age haven't really begun to be "good" or "bad" but she can spot the kid's whose parents won't turn up to Parent-Teacher meetings or sign permission slips for field trips etc by the kids name.

I think there may be a correlation between the quality of a parent, and the name that parent gives the child (though admittedly, I have no backing for this claim), but assuming that the child is going to be a good or bad student simply based on the name can be a damaging practice.

A study should show any correlation, and to what. You should try to get the best from the children though. As an example, I started with an alkie father and my mother living in poverty (the real thing[1], not chav style). Picked on in school and fucked over by supposed 'good people' - who knew my brother and I were scum.
Give them a chance, mine came from education. I'm earning over double the UK average salary, owe no money to anyone and have so much freedom to do almost anything in my work and personal life, its unreal. I worked for it, hard.
Don't give children fake 'options' or 'choices' but the real thing - the education to see beyond strictures, scriptures and ideologies. Open up their world, not close it down.

[1] Choosing between 2nd hand clothes for us, or food. For real.

/rant

Whoa - Mandy isn't considered a traditional name in Germany at least?

*Is offended for certain reasons *

My mom has had experience with name discrimination. She recalls how her bosses at work would not hire or interview potential employees if they didn't have a "normal" name, even if they had the proper credentials (and she has admitted to doing the same prejudiced acts toward people who don't have "normal" names).

To add a similar life experience, I know how some people will equivelate certain black people as being low-class based on the names that *some* black people name their kids. I admit that some black American names are interesting (D'Keesha is interesting) ... but some prejudice of "non-traditional" names has a lot to do with the ignorance of the "general" population. For instance, a lot of people don't care to realize that a lot of names that are popular in the black community - such as Latifah, Aaliyah, Aylah, Omar, Kareem, Jamal, and Dante - are prexisting names that often come from the Arabic culture (Dante I think is Italian though). The orgin of black parents naming their kids Arabic names sprouted in the 70s when black pride and afrocentrism was popular (and also a lot of black Americans started converting to Islam and joining the Nation of Islam and that's were we get a lot of people like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (basketball player) who changed their names upon converting).

Basically, if a black person's name is non-Anglicized name, then people will assume them as being low class and cultured.

Same here. Sucked ass growing up. And so many kids these days whine about not having the latest fucking technology. We were worried about whether the food was gonna last.

Carpi ~ Mad Mandy mauls meatheads?

I make it a point to attend every parent/teacher meeting that we get(yes, with eyeliner, dressed in black and with my big Bat Boots), I sit in on their classes occasionally, talk to the teachers/principal/student aides about any questions I have until everything is answered to my staisfaction. We have a good relationship with the school staff.

It's horribly wrong to judge a student based on something that they had no control over(namely...their naming). I haven't run across it with our children, probably because the people who choose to work with special needs kids seem to be more compassionate than the teachers I had growing up.

I will say that it does seem that our daughter is living up to the definition of her name as the first independent woman. She wants to do everything herself!

These names are the ones my cousin says are nearly guaranteed trouble. Of course having a black-American n ame when you're white and Irish does say quite a lot about your parents.

You know, I would expect a teacher might look at a child's out-of-the-mainstream name and, instead of judging that child as a "troublemaker" (or worse), connect that name with a literary or historical source that might have served as inspiration in the child's naming.

Is it really too much to expect teachers, of all people, to do that?

Even (as Carpi here pointed out) a lot of the African-American names have a history. Or are portmanteaus of African words and American name elements.

There's another survey that was done last year (by a British pregnancy and parenting club called Bounty) in which 3,000 teachers in the U.K. singled out the names "Liam," "Chelsea," and "Brooke" as belonging to "troublemakers."

Wtf? As if opinion surveys aren't stupid enough to begin with, why in the hell would teachers be responding to what I can only imagine must have been idiotic questions to begin with?

-- Nephele

Does it say the same as someone who is black being named Erin or Sean?

I've never actually met anyone named Erin so I guess it doesn't? I dunno really, are wannabe Irish types difficult in schools in the USA?

Who knows? Possibly the survey was a fiction, or the results slanted, or any one of a million things which can happen to surveys to arrive at a statistical conclusion which can then be manipulated to hell. However, it does say a lot about us. The names in question, in this country at least, would instantly summon up some stereotypical mental images, and given the way we're still so bloody class-riven here, it doesn't surprise me that teachers would jump to conclusions about these names.

And, of course, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Teachers enter the classroom automatically assuming that these kids are going to cause trouble; they treat the kids accordingly, and - like any human being - the kids think they might as well be hung for being sheep as lambs, and start messing around in class...

My grandfather change his name to Joseph from his ethnic name Hohepa and also took on our Scottish family surname instead of his original ethnic surname due to pressure at school from the teachers and headmaster.
In his day he was only allowed to speak english at school, Maori (Native language of New Zealand) was not permitted yet that was the only language he spoke fluently.
He and his parents were told that if he took on a 'christian' name he would not automatically be though of as a 'troublemaker' as he was also fair skinned.
It saddens me that after all this time such sentiments still exist.

Oooh! Ooooh! I have a great Last Name story!

When I was a young man in the late 1960s in CCD classes (which is the Catholic education for kids who went to public school), our "teachers" were a gang of nuns with a few well-meaning layman volunteers scattered about. For the nuns, though, they were mostly old-school, battle worn, knuckle slapping types. Crotchety at best, they answered no question with definite answers, and made sure all roads lead back to God somehow.

Classes were (if you can stomach this) SATURDAY MORNING AT 8:30 AM. Which is a filthy thing to do to a kid. Any kid.

Every class started with roll call. One of my classmates had the surname of Miskovitch, which the 2nd grade nun-teacher constantly had trouble with, week after week, until finally she said fumbling one morning, "Miskobitch...."

A small, soft-spoken boy said, "Miskovitch."

"What is it?" asked the creased mummy-like nun.

"Miskovitch."

"So it's not Miskobitch?"

"No ma'am."

"Ok. Miskovitch. Terrible name. Terrible name" was the final verdict from nun central.

I lost touch with the poor fellow after CCD, but he didn't look so well that day. If I wanted to go digging up trouble, I suppose I could find him. Think he has a nun head on his wall? Bet he'd like one.

I have no idea, that's why I asked you!

I've never paid much attention to the names of so-called 'troublemakers' in school. I do remember that they were the ones whose parents paid them little to no attention. They were normally nice kids. They just did shit to get the attention or discipline they lacked at home.

I have an unusual name. Zephyra, pronounced Zeh-fur-ah, (sorry if that seems condescending but I have heard many mispronuciations). I am not a trouble maker, in fact I have a 3.0 gpa and i've never drank (outside of sneaking shots of every wine bottle that comes into the house) or done drugs, no graffiti, bullying, unprotected sex, vandalism, or irresponsible driving. I'm squeaky clean and homeschooled. Now here's the punchline: niether of my parents have jobs, and we live in a neighborhood surrounded by teenagers and adults who do all that bad stuff on a regular basis. All of them have ordinary names, Erica, Alicia, Jose, Emily, Aiden, James. My name has never made me feel insecure....but then again, goths inherently embrace their differences, while most other people inherently cry about them.