In case any of you have had your head buried in the sand, there is a huge controversy going on right now about a proposed mosque being built at Ground Zero in Manhattan, NY. Last night on Countdown With Keith Olberman, he made a very poignant statement about the whole affair.

Watch it here.

Thoughts?

~spidey

Keith Olbermann is a decent individual who says a lot of smart things, including this piece.

You don't have to like Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind Park 51. You don't even have to like the Islamic religion. Or any religion, for that matter.

But this is America, where freedom of religion still ought to count for something.



-- Nephele

Agreed. I would go a step further and say that in addition to the religious rights perspective, there's also a property rights issue involved.

If I own real estate, I should be able to build whatever I want on it provided I follow the rules [building codes for instance]. To say "no, you can't build _, and there is no change you can make to your proposal to allow it, just because that's what the general opinion on your project is" makes me feel quite uneasy.

I think Keith Olberman is my new hero too, because me and my mom where just talking about this same thing.

My stance is the same as Olberman's. Not surprisingly my husband thinks the opposite.

Has he watched the piece? I ask because a lot of my friends who were against it changed their tune when they realized that not only is it some 4 blocks away from the proposed 9/11 memorial, and not only will it not be seen from ground zero, but there is already a Muslim prayer center within a block of where the twin towers stood that has been there since before the towers were built that no one seems to have a problem with.

If someone wants to shout from the rooftops "not in our backyard", they need to do their research first and make sure it isn't already there to begin with.

~spidey, who believes in freedom of and FROM religion

Well said!

I watched this last night and cheered when he finished, I apparently underestimated Mr. Olberman.

Wow, that's one hell of a career risk he's taking given the current climate of fear. I hope it pays off for the muslims of America.

The thing that really gets me is that people are blaming all Muslims for something one crazy-ass faction did. It's like saying that all Christians are nutbags for what happened at Waco.

The problem is that the people reacting with fear and hate most likely don't personally know any Muslims. We have a big Muslim population in New York, and New Yorkers come in contact with Muslims a lot. We have had one extremely anti-Muslim member of this board who shall remain nameless, who admitted that he lived out in "the boonies," so presumably he doesn't know any Muslims personally, either.

I have seen more people from OUTSIDE of New York voice their loud-mouth opinions against this community center, than I have seen actual New Yorkers doing so. In fact, it was New Yorkers who approved the construction of this center. I personally know people of the Muslim faith, and I have absolutely no fears of any of them murdering me in my sleep.

While I'm hardly any advocate for religion, being atheist, I am absolutely one-hundred percent for the freedom of all to practice their beliefs without impediment from government or others – provided that they are not impeding the freedom of anyone else. I'm also absolutely one-hundred percent for property rights (as mentioned above by sgath92).

Muslim-hating fear-mongers like the people getting all hysterical over this community center and stirring up more hysteria on Internet message boards, seriously need to focus their attention on genuinely threatening issues facing this nation, such as the economy, rising health care costs, the diminished livelihood of our citizens affected by the Gulf Coast oil spill, and so on.

-- Nephele

What I feared the most with that place would be the New yorkers reaction. Because I know they won't try to explode NY or murder those who don't belive in the muslim way, but some others may think that and over-react to the fake treath that cause.

There is no "atheist manifesto" Keith, but thanks.

My friend posted something amusing to his Facebook feed, which I subsequently posted on Twitter:

"In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003."

Definitely. The Detroit area has one of the highest populations of people of Middle Eastern descent outside of the actual region... You really can't go anywhere without running into some people from that region, including Muslims.

My mom absolutely loves Muslim people. She may not agree with everything that Islam has to offer and she definitely does not approve of the crazies, but she feels a connection with followers of Islam being a follower of Seventh Day Adventism. She has at least one Muslim co-worker, and my mother is on very good terms with him - he even brings her cuisine during Ramadan (which is going on right now).

"Here I am having to fast all day, and yet I'm STILL bringing you food."

"Yep - and it's good."

Words shared between them yesterday at work. xD

As for the actual mosque building debate - I just took it with a grain of salt. Come on - we've heard FAR MORE outlandish plans of what to put in the place of the WTC than a mosque which isn't even being built in that same location, from what I've heard. It's unbelievable how some conservatives are blowing this out of proportion. I heard one of them said that they were going to name the mosque something along the lines of "Conqueror" in Arabic or something.

While I had never heard of Keith Olberman before (I hope that is not bad or another example of me living under a rock), I have to say that I found it a powerful speech. I do hope this (almost) hatred towards the center and to people with the muslim faith (or any other faith or atheism that is not in vogue with those who think lthey 'know' the one and only way to like) will disappear soon in the US. Right now, the biggest problem I personally see with this community center is that it might not attract non-muslims or only a few of them, because of all the extreme stories in the media. And, if it is indeed the intention of the founders to be open to muslim as well as non-muslim people, it could have been a place for New Yorkers (and the 'pilgrims' who visit ground zero) to learn about islam. (Although I am not sure whether that was part of the plans, but I would like that.)

This plan - and the extreme reactions to it - have also reached Europe. And I am very sorry to say that, over here, we do also have politicians and other people who think that no muslim should ever be granted something that has to do with islam. Like there are no real or urgent problems that need attention in this world.