http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yREOUxo6 ... r_embedded

That didn't sound too good. Anyone else figure that's a sign of some sort? That if you take the national debt and divide it by the population, every man, woman and child in the US currently has a 'debt' of roughly 100 thousand dollars...
*thinking of moving somewhere far away*

It's a problem, but not insurmountable. National debt is shooting upward, but relative to GDP, it's less now than it was in 1946.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Also, the US's position with national debt is hardly unique. Many developed countries are highly leveraged as well, with similar debt-to-GDP ratios as the United States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Publi ... ld_map.svg

SS

This isn't a problem unique to the USA, but it IS a rather large problem. I don't think the problem is an easily solved one, or one solvable with the current system of banking where countries lease their own money at a loss from banks. We should all declare bankruptcy and fold our countries.

I hate folding! Can't we just hang them in the closet?

I've heard of money laundering, but country laundering?

Brazil used to do it with their currancy yearly IIRC. It has happened elsewhere a few times too, Russia did a pretty decent job of it after the collapse of the USSR for example.

The country has been in worse positions and still pulled through. There is no reason the country can't survive the economic downturn.

I just don't get why we don't wipe debt off from ALL countries? wouldn't that solve it all? TBH the only reall problem is intrest it's becuase of that it's imposible to pay off any debt. Fun Fact: the only time america cleared it's natianal debt was when the federal reserve bank (or what ever it was called) was shut down and a differnt monatery system was implimented. don't belive me? go find Zeitgeist addendum on youtube, watch the first 15 minuites, should explain a lot.
for those that don't all you need to know is this:

MONEY = DEBT

infact if there were no debt, there would be no money in circulation funny that huh?

Jericho, wiping all debt from all countries makes no sense at all. As some countries are more in debt than others, and when weighed against national profits and so on and so forth, such an act would only serve to damage the U.S. Compared to Japan, for example, the U.S is in a powerful position. A position that it would not want to surrender.

In fact, one can't really claim that money equals debt, either. Money existed BEFORE debt. Money was, simply, a system to simplify trade. Why risk moving your valuable wheat or iron when you could say that something represented value? That way, it could stay somewhere safe until it was exchanged, and then be moved by the new owner. It also eliminated issues with shipping. Of course, then people began to prey on money, so things like banks and the likes were invented, to swap money without moving it.

I currently have no debts. I have money. That alone proves the theory false. The issue instead lies with what we are doing to undermine the value of our money. With currency no longer based on a nation's gold, but rather it's wealth in general, playing with such things as the stock market is really what it's all about. What has created this debt is the removal of checks and balances; we've allowed the people who get our money when we invest it to theorize on trends, to buy theoretical produce and generally do risky things that have brought us back to boom or bust, rather than steady, safe growth.

America WILL recover. It has too much potential to produce both suply AND demand not to. How fast, and how reliably, I think all depends on what the powers that be decide to do with how the nation's money is handled. And of course, on what the nation does to recover losses; this is a wartorn period we live in. A new war is often a good way for a powerful nation to make a LOT of money.

In fact, I think the only thing that might make America's recovery questionable is whether China uses this period to spearhead a financial assault. If China can take the role of America not as the producer of products, but as the OWNER of produced products, then it may well cripple the country and China will officially become the world superpower.

Of course, that could very well trigger another kind of war altogether. As far as I understand it, China's nuclear might is relatively meagre. With the U.S no longer glaring at the post-soviets, but rather at (ironically) a new ex-communist enemy, the nuclear stalemate could end and we could face a new world war. Hah, naturally, that last part is simply wild, sensationalist speculation. But now you're thinking about it, aren't you?

do you know what the fractional reserve money system is? if your goverment uses it, then that money you have is owed to some one some place, that won't change, it's not a theory it's a fact. the reason all money = debt is becuase in this system the money starts at a deficit.
yes we had money before now but it worked on a diferant system, money wasn't created at a defecit, it was created so that wo would have somthing of equal value to somthign else without the need of goods to barter with. those notes you use are not garrunteed to that equivlent of gold, infact it's only legal tender becuase the goverment say it is (that is in a fractional reserve money system), if people didn't use it, it would stop being valuable.

I won't argue whether money has value or not, not any further, at least. That's getting away from the original point of the topic. Instead, I'll ask, why do you think that removing currency will magically make a nation's problems go away? People still need a system to exchange goods, after all, and our material products are the basis of wealth.

We can't physically trade the goods, not because it's impossible, but because with how quickly the value of items changes it's not feasable. When the price of a product leaps or plumets whilst a trade is en-route, the trade partner is likely to simply back out, leaving you with a loss for shipping resources. Not to mention actual physical threats to that wealth, such as pirates, fierce weather and in some cases, the simple threat of perishing, if it is a consumable.

If we remove currency, debt remains, also. People don't suddenly forget that you owe them, and the cut-throat negotiations over the level of debt that might ensue could simply devastate each and every world economy, rather than saving them. If America demands it's debts be paid in oil, for example, it would result in many countries losing their prime export in order to pay. They'd go under. Meanwhile, if someone that America is in debt to demands oil as payment, then suddenly America lacks any oil, lacks any debts owed to get more oil, and it's industry grinds to a halt. And this goes on and on until every economy crashes but one. But then, this new country suddenly has no market to sell it's petroleum products to. It's people haven't gotten any wealth, and in fact have lost their only representation of it. The rest of the world lacks the resources to buy anything, since their economy crashed.

Oil suddenly becomes so priceless that it's worthless. The last country can't let go of it's monopoly, else it loses the power it gained. But it gains no wealth by keeping it, either.

If we remove money, whether it honestly has value beyond what we put on it or not, there will be no system with which to work. Everything goes to chaos. The only way to remove money is to replace it with an equally arbitrary measurement... And won't that just be money again, only different?

So, as is, I can't possibly imagine how removing money (the seat of the non-expansionist super-power's power) is going to benefit the U.S. As is, considering how easily, given a decade, the U.S can rebuild and remain on top, I don't see why it would ever even WANT to let go of such a useful tool.

Worthless or not, money is powerful. It's a pacifistic weapon.

I think he's just expressing himself poorly.

The problem lies not with money, but how money is made and regulated. If you rent it to governments at interest then governments can never produce enough to pay back their debts, since they will always have to borrow more to pay the initial debt.

Essentially the various central banks have the world by the balls, and we're hitting a situation similar to that in the 20's where there just plain isn't enough money in circulation to hide the glaring debts all countries have accumulated.

My solution, as with most things, is judicious application of artillery fire to the relevant buildings.

^pretty much this^
we still need money but we need one that isn't created at a defecit. Belive it or not there was a period in american history where they paid off national debt, they did this by shutting down the central bank and using a differant currency, one that doesn't have debt atached to it.
the best way to look at it is that we need a resourced based society, one where money is equal to an object's value, not equal to it's deficit from the national gold treasury.

EDIT: HE?

I believe our problems started when we stopped using gold as a standard. These days, I don't feel like the US dollar is worth the paper it is printed on!

The US as a whole needs to change their way of thinking. Credit has made it so easy for people to live outside of their means, and the leaders of the country are not providing a good example! It used to be where one had to get off of their butts and work to eat. Now, there are so many entitlement programs, that there is a whole group of people that has no desire to go out and get a job! That takes money out of the government to pay for other services or pay off debts. These people don't pay what they could in taxes if they were working, and in fact, take out more by receiving food stamps and the like. We seriously need some welfare reform to make it more difficult to abuse the system!

You need more than welfare reform, you need entire economic reform and to take another swing and leaving the gold standard behind. Europe is in the same boat, as are most developed nations. Ironically the less developed nations are better off right now, as the falling currency values proportionally decrease their debts.
I've redefined you as male. Largely because your username is identified with a city and vaguely withsome WWF wrestler in my head.