Animals, trees, shop floor mannequins, etc. are incapable of mutually entering into legally binding contracts. Adult human beings, on the other hand, are capable of mutually entering into legally binding contracts.

So, yes, the argument that "allowing" gays -- who are human beings -- the right to marriage will lead to people marrying dogs, etc. is not only crazy, but also kind of offensive.

-- Nephele

Of course, off topic, I like the Wiccan Rede, it symbolizes the very beauty and balance we as human beings try to find. I find great beauty in the poem and concept behind it even though, I, myself, am not Wiccan.

On topic, though, I do think it is a lesson I think we should take and use when it comes to this debate. Because we hear from many that who are we to deny the same rights and privileges to two consenting adult of the same gender who wish to congregate for the rest of their lives? Do I think we should regulate that? I am of the opinion of keeping government out of our private lives. Thats why we set up shop on this side of the ocean. On social scale, should we govern this, yes, of course, why not? Society has dictated/governed what is socially acceptable for ages, I think it has worked out well. Society evolves, thats how change occur, the difference between than and now is that people want change NOW, not like the old days that its' sweet a$$ time.

I think what bothers me in a way is that some folks would call it discrimination when society believes it is not the norm for people of the same gender to be legally married. But than again, back in the day it was illegal in regions of the U.S. where marrying out of your race could get you put in jail. However, I do think that the difference between that and today is that the majority were male and females. Where as today it is people of the same gender.

I am sure, in about 30 years from now, when we're in our retirement homes or in our retirement homes down in Mexico some where, we'll be talking about this to our great-grand children, just as we talk about the issue of interracial dating/marrying and how it was illegal and frowned upon.

For the conservative Bible thumpers, they hate same gender marriages, guess whats coming their way? Same gender marriages! When you hate something or dislike something so much, life has an interesting way of shoving it straight in your face one way or the other. End_Rant

Just because society holds a particular belief it doesn't make it right. Society once believed that the Earth was flat.

People who love each other should be able to marry. Period.

I believe you are right, society does evolve to correct itself. But are we to condemn the same people who disagree with the notion of same gender unions? I don't think we should because than those condemning the opponents of same gender unions are really hypocrites in their right say folks like us are bigots, and all the nice PC words that come from the 1960s courtesy of Jim Crow laws. Where do you draw the line?

But I also believe somethings, like same gender unions, marriages, whatever we wish to call it, are wrong. Is it a moral thing? Is it something my mom picked up from society when she was growing up and instilled this belief into me? More likely yes. But is it the governments job to say who gets married? My take is no; the general government is far too big, I believe, to be the watch dog on private social behavior between consenting adults.

People invented marriage, but they did not invent same sex attraction. By this token, who gives a shit about the genders of the happy couple?

Absolutely not. There's no need to condemn anybody. I ask only that they back off, and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

-- Nephele

While I have nothing against homosexuals, I feel that marriage is a sacrament between a man and a woman.

So then for you the issue is religious?

He won't be responding, I'm afraid; he was a sockpuppet for the previously-banned rebvotka.

Exactly. We don't want to condemn anyone. We just want everyone to have equal rights without religious oppression written into the law. There was a time when people who were left handed were thought to be evil/devil worshipers/witches for some odd reason. There are still people who believe that it's that it's a sin to marry someone of a different color. It's the same with bias against gay marriage.

My point is that society has condemned a great many things, out of ignorance or skewed religious interpretation, through the ages that we now know to be perfectly okay. It's time for a stop to all religion in the law, regardless of what our founding fathers believed in(hypocrisy, mainly). I'd hate to think that no one could have morals without being a part of the church. I don't need a commandment to tell me killing is wrong, it's common sense.

Marriage should be something that is open to everyone regardless of their gender. As Luna said earlier in the thread, religion can't have monopoly on a word and there shouldn't be different words in the law to describe the same thing based on whether you're marrying a man or a woman. Oppression is wrong, regardless of the reason, and that's exactly what not allowing same-sex marriage is.

The way i see it there is absolutly nothing wrong with same sex marriage, and for anyone who says its wrong, I ask, how does it really affect you to the point that you have such a problem with it?

Awwww man.... *sniffle* I wanted some real debate on this issue. We're all far too sensible here.

Arquinsiel- very true, we are all being to reasonable. God forbid that many of us use our head. However, since the heterosexual against this issue has some votes, that must mean someone, somewhere does not agree.

So I will try to play the devil’s advocate with my limited knowledge (only one book).

Gay marriage is wrong because marriage is defined by the US federal government as a union between a man and a woman. Not only does the bible say many things against homosexuality, but everyone knows that it was created with the thought of being able to bare children. Not only that, but it is a unity of two people of the opposite sex, and that is the way it should stay. If God wanted opposites to marry, then he never would have made Adam and Eve, or at the very least, gave Adam more than one option.

The bible specifically calls homosexuality an abomination and it should be considered as such as it makes a mockery of the sexual union of two souls.
Besides, everyone knows that if we allow such an outrageous thing as same sex marriage, that we will be opening the door to polygamy, then the enter stance and unity will go out of the window. All I am saying is, how far must we ruin marriage. Gay marriage is a gate way to completely destroy everything that marriage stands for.

And think of the kids who are and might be raised by gay families. What if they grow up to be gay because of example, teaching our children immoral behavior. It should not be tolerated. It should not be allowed.

(there, is that a good enough argument... i think i got many of the con point of view...?)

It varies a bit among different cultures, but more specifically the intent behind marriage is the baring of legitmate children: those who receive the inheritance and carry on the family line. For example, in feudal Japan a man's only legitimate children came from his wife, but he could have sex with any other woman (so long as she wasn't married) or man (which was perfectly acceptable).

In many places marriage also functioned as an arrangement based on finances more than love, with women marrying for financial security and men getting someone to cook and clean for them.

But anyway, most of the arguments you posted rely on an appeal to authority fallacy, and in the case of the Bible a bogus authority I would argue. Just because the Bible or the government says it's wrong doesn't mean anything, you have to explain why it's wrong. Then there's the slippery-slope that I brought up earlier: that same-sex marriage would lead to polygamy, bestiality, etc.

The only thing I'm fuzzy on is same-sex parents raising damaged children. I'd have to look into it more, but my sense is that it's bullshit.