Um I wasnt gonna post since someone already got banned cause of this topic, but I think that even if God doesnt exist you should think that the idea of a God is whats keeping lots of people alive, so I guess Im trying to say is that maybe God isn´t this divine thing we picture but maybe it´s just hope. I don know that just crossed my mind maybe Im crazy I dont know.........:p

Don't feel afraid to say what's on your mind unless you know it's offensive. I make mistakes as well, but look 1300-something posts with much lack of wisdom.
As for what you said about God being a sort of 'vision of hope', it makes perfect sense to me and some people believe in him, if only for hope. That's why I used to be so zealously catholic anyways.


For lack of complete understanding, would you be saying that by using satelites, radars, radios and the likes to broadcast signals that stay on earth, we're basically 'cloaking' our planet from other civilizations that may exist in space?

Well, I just spent an eternity (no pun intended) reading this very interesting thread.

Someone once told me to do this the little exercise I am about to ask you all to do and it was quite liberating.
1. Get a piece of plain paper
2. Draw a big circle on the page
Ok, the circle represents ALL the knowledge in the universe.
3. Draw another circle inside the big circle that you believe represents how much of all that knowledge you personally know. (Most people if they are not deluded will draw a fairly small circle)
4. Take a moment to consider the area of the circle that represents what you do not know in comparison to what you do know.

Moral of the story?
It is very possible that outside the boundaries of your own understanding could dwell the entity known as God. There is so much space in the circle that represents knowledge you do not know (or has not yet been discovered).

This exercise can also be used in the reciprocal. It is very possible that outside the boundaries of your own understanding could be proof conclusive that God does not exist.

This exercise shows that nobody has a monopoly on the 'truth' and that there is always another point of view to consider.

This exercise helped me to leave my personal bigotry at the door so to speak for I am a Christian and do believe in the existence of God.

Is it possible that I am wrong?

Of course it is, there is sooooo much space outside my realm of knowledge.

This is the thing, the idea of a God of any kind requires faith, faith which usually goes past the need for proof. What people of any religion should never do is cram their personal faith down somebody elses throat. Christianity is a very personal thing as are all belief systems and the 'truth' must be discovered by each individual for themselves.
"The Great Commision" as recorded in the gospels is more often than not used to excuse the behaviour of people like creeper who inadvertantly do more damage than good.

If we all learned to tolerate and celebrate each others differences then we would be a much happier species.

Here endeth the lesson.

mkrampluap ~ attempting to recover some dignity for the Christians on the board...

Personally, given how much of the universe we really don't know, it is entirely possible that you are not wrong and there is a/are some God-like being/beings. As Sir Arthur C Clarke posited, advanced technology would seem like magic to a primitive culture, so maybe what we percieve as God-like powers (turning people to salt, etc) is just that of a being with advanced knowledge of how the universe works.

Far from being a comfort, the idea of God-like entities scares the crap out of me.

Why, you ask?

Look at it this way. If the universe can accomodate beings beyond our comprehension, what's to say there isn't more than one? What if there's loads of these creatures? Maybe some of them malevolent, others benevolent, but they'll most probably not abide by any morality as we know it. They may even be totally indifferent, and that's the scary thing.

Perhaps we're not the special children of a loving god, but just an anomaly in an otherwise insane universe. Quantum physics supports this theory in a way, since everything is theorised to be in a constant state of flux at the Quantum level. What's to say the universe as we know it wasn't created on a whim and will one day return to a state of chaotic nothingness?

Who's to say we haven't already?

- trag, promoting the Cthulhu angle

I thought it was "hitchikers guide to the galaxy"

Some people believe that at various points in our history Aliens might have landed on our planet and of course humans then assumed these beings would be Gods .

It's very likely that there are some very powerful beings in the universe some of which no doubt would like us and some who wouldn't but as scary as that thought is because we humans are probably fairly low in power and intelligence compared to some other beings/species out there we aren't all that interesting .

However it seems as our technology developed , especially since we moved into the nuclear age alien sightings have become more frequent so I think we are becoming more interesting to other beings .

I don't know why they wouldn't think of us as interresting. Because we're not as smart as them? If someone doesn't bother me too much, yet they have an I.Q. of a dodo I sometimes listen to them just to see what the world 'looks' like from their perspective. I just listen and learn and the more I listen the more I learn the more I understand people. Then again, if extra terrestrials come here they might only be around to steal technologies they don't already have, it's the smart thing to do.

Think about it. Many of us would welcome them with open arms because of the problems we have on earth. But why would they want to soil their hands with such things? They've surely lived the same or similar hardships. Yet we might discover things on our planet, which they've never seen, so why not just take what they want and let us be? It's probably what I'd do. Besides, who's to say that they can help us at all? Or maybe they realize that we need our wars?
I don't mean to sound like a madman by saying this, but where would be, politically speaking, without World War II? Yes, it was a horror, but the League of Nations was a flunk and still would be. Racist politicians would be ruling over important sectors of our planet. We need our lessons and perhaps it's exactly that which they don't wish to deprive us of no matter how much or how little we interrest them.

Then again, perhaps the idea of extra terrestrials ever landing on our planet has always been an illusion of tired and druged minds over the millenia.
I'm just speculating.

The "alien as god" supporters claim that is why all the people who ascended/descended into/from heavan have glowing halos around their heads in all the paintings, it was some sort of space suit.

I dont really believe in god, capital g or nay. However, i do believe that there is some sort of primal power out there, but i do not think it is a supreme being. I think it is more like a natural force that we can interact with if we follow the right path*

My reasoning is a lot more in depth generally, but i am too tired right now to discuss it accurately. The gist of it is as follows. A couple of hundred years ago, as far as scientists were concerned, light consisted of seven colours.
A few experiments later and the scientists are amazed to discover a broader range to the spectrum, ultra-violet, and infra-red. We cant see it. But its there. There are many other invisible forces that we cant see. Radiowaves, gamma rays, gravity. We take them so much for granted, we cant imagine what it was like to not know they existed. Bet Newton thought he was a step closer to answering all lifes questions when he discovered gravity. So what if the spectrum is broader still? What if there is another force out there? There seems to be a strong possibility that we have not discovered everything yet.
Why would there still be any unanswered questions?

Interesting Nonsense Point:
One of the core elements in mathmatics is the belief in infinity.
In an infinite universe, where all possibilities exist, there must be a God, as in Infinity all things must exist. So maybe to believe in maths at all is to believe in god.

There is a great Calvin and Hobbs comic strip that would be so perfect right here...


...but i cant find it so you'll have to do without.

* By this, i do not mean any religious following, i just mean a way of thinking, or of realising.

But you forget the number 0.
And will you be posting the comic strip later?

OVer the years I've grown more well-inclined such an idea, free from any religious biases. If there did exist a God-like force, it wouldn't necessarily ascribe to human morality. In fact I dislike humanity's penchant for attaching human behavioural modes to potentially inhuman things.

Continuing the theological subject from a different angle, what are people's views on the concept of the human soul? Is there a part of us which continues to exist after our bodies die, or are the things that make us unique gone forever when our time is up? If souls do exist, is there a place they go after death or do they just drift aimlessly around the universe like cosmic flotsam?

I've given this quite a lot of thought really, and whereas once I had no problem with the idea of oblivion the thought now scares the shit out of me. While not having a defined religious faith has its advantages, I feel a distinct lack of the comfort factor many devout people take for granted.

Thankfully, science has something to console me.

The Quantum Theory of Consciousness

- trag, who quite likes the idea of a post-death jaunt around the universe

The universe *does* grow and decay like a living organism. Stars and planets and galaxies are born and die, black holes eat chunks of the universe, etc. etc.

And as it stands right now, our galaxy is only a tiny speck in what we currently know as the galaxy/universe/whatever out there, so the quark theory isn't even that far-fetched.

The NYC Museum of Natural History had 2 fascinating IMAX movies on the Space subject that I've seen. I wish they were availible elsewhere. Otherwise check to see if a local Natural History Museum has a space section that you can visit. It's very interesting, and also quite humbling, knowing that you are just a tiny mote in the vastness of space.



Lilith

i belive in god... im catholic....call me crazy but...

What a previous poster mentioned sounds alot like "The Force" from Star Wars .

I think there is sufficient evidence that suggests that some way or another we do go on after we die as there is just too much evidence of ghosts to ignore .

I actually don't care what awaits in the afterlife be it heaven or hell just as long as death isn't just the end .

I do tend to agree that if there is a god like force it may not be human like at all which would explain the good old question of "Why does God let there be bad things ?" Well because God may not work with the simple concept of good or bad as we understand it .

There must be a God. Do you think that millions of years ago a random chemical reaction would have had the sense of humor to one day create someone as ridiculously stupid as me?

LDS, signing out



Edited By Captain Nevarre on 1090738519

Did you know that zero itself is a relatively new invention? A concept claimed by the Arabs, some of the greatest civilisations in the world prospered without it. But i digress.
It didn't exist for ages, but maybe that is the point. For what is zero, if it is not nothing, and if it is nothing, then defining it makes it something quantifiable and therefore no longer nothing.

As to its importance i believe that there is an opposite for everything. An opposite for infinity is nothing. I believe that they must both exist in the same plane for either of them to exist at all.

So an infinite number of infinite universes are surrounded by nothing. But, they argue, if the universe is infinite then it cannot be surrounded. One might say , nothing can surround it...