Amazing how one can so quickly go from praying for peoples' souls right into damning them to hell. Hardly kind, forgiving, understanding, or, essentially, Christian, is it?

Captain Nevarre
...now, can we PLEASE get back on topic?...

Yes, back on topic as Captain Nevarre so fortunately requested, I say this is a rather impractical application of mathematical probability.

First of all, only nine planets are *truly* known of. As far as we can tell there may be plenty of other forms of life orbiting close (in a galactic perspective, at least) stars. Or there may be no forms of life for unimaginable distances. The ratio of barren planets to life-harboring planets is obviously not attainable by looking at the nine planets of our solar system, so we can't even tell if these insane probability figures are really all that insane - they could be right on the mark (or at least close) according to the rest of the universe.

Second of all, the all-encompassing fact that we don't know everything comes into play. We don't fully understand, nor can we fully trace back the steps of DNA creation yet.

Third, the probability of a DNA strand being created out of nature could be a large ratio, but what about the creation of a higher being? How would this being come to be, and what's the probability of -that- process happening? If this figure could be found, comparing them might prove the original statement astronomically ridiculous.

And finally, remember that the greatest truths require no research.

Lilith,

You are absolutely correct, the bible holds many thoughts and happenings worth taking into consideration when pondering how to act in life (especially at the time it was written) but they just don't suit me very well.

I do not believe in God, hence Jesus can not be his son, who can be a son to someone that doesn't exist (MY OPINION)? Jesus might very well have existed as a historical person and it is possible that he was very charismatic and that people listened to him. On the other hand, history has seen such people in other contexts, germany in the 40s etc, so that does not make him unique. A person stepping into peoples lives at the right time, when stuff is hard and people want answers and explenations.

I agree 100% that many of the phenomenas in the bible nowadays can be scientifically understood, and I respect that the people of that time did not have that knowledge and might have intepreted it as divine interventions etc...

That said, whatever keeps you happy. Stick to it, be it christianity, wicca, satanism, old nordic ways etc...

As I already said, I have the standing belief that the univers was created and we just got more or less lucky. I do, however believe in a God although not exactly as the bible describes "him". I lean more towards the Captain Nevaree's views being:


I was thinking that seeing as such precision is required for life to exist, wouldn't it be logical to assume that life on another planet would ressemble life on our own little rock? If we could make it to the closest planet with life on it (assuming we're not alone in the universe which sounds logical to me), I'd like to know what other creatures like the ones we find here on earth we might find. Who knows, there could be other human-like creatures out there, which isn't too bad of an assumption concidering that we're probably the only species on earth that has ever lived/does live in every single climat the world has ever thrown at us.

~Spidey just being slightly philosiphical...as always.

This is very true. There are all sorts of constants in the universe that have to be a certain way in order for us to exist.

The gravitational constant, the force that binds electrons together, etc.

Even discounting the physical principles that bind the universe together, think about all the nescessary conditions for life that exist in our universe!

1. X-ray output. The sun has an uncharacteristically low output of X-rays. X-rays would otherwise penetrate the ozone and sterilize the earth.

2. The Moon. I'm not sure how familiar everyone is with Orpheus theory, but it basically goes as follows: 4.3 billion years ago, not long after the earth's formation, an object 2/3 the size of the current earth collided with the fledgling earth, blowing off millions of millions of metric dust that eventually coalscesed to form the moon. The moon that we have is disproportionately large in comparison ot the planet it orbits. The closest thing to moons that the other inner planets have are a couple of captured asteriods orbitting Mars.
The moon blocks the earth from evolution-threatening asteroid collisions by gravitationally raking in asteroids. Also, without a moon controlling tides and affecting weather, 98% of the earth would be covered by salt water and wispy clouds. Without the moon, humans would simply not exist.

3. Jupiter. Jupiter acts as another comet and larger asteroid catcher for the earth. Just imagine if comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 from 1997 had collided with the earth with each of the 12 or so particles having the impact of 10,000 Hiroshima bombs.

4. Mass extinction. Without the extinction of the diosaurs, mammals would never have been able to evolve alongside them without becoming lunch. With the impact of Chixulbub on the Yucatan penninsula 65 million years ago, an evolutionary ecological vacuum was formed that then allowed humans to rise to be the dominant species on the planet.

5. Annihilation. If Eisenhower had not put forth a policy of limited response, or if the Soviets had not backed off from the Cuban Missle Crisis, our world would currently be little more than a ball of nuclear ash. The fact that these random events of self preservation took place in the face of the atomic age speaks for itself.

Do these points prove the existance of God? Maybe. I believe that God exists and that nature is really the proof. It doesn't mean one damn bit that I believe in Bronze Age creation mythology, however. Considering that a 6000 year old earth would be impossible by the laws of physics itself, that's proof enough that the Bible should NEVER be taken literally.

Besides... how dare we little insignificant humans cram the idea of a Creator into the parameters of one (sub-branching of one) religion and assume that we know all.





~blood rose~

I've always had this funny theory that the our galaxy is a single atom/cell in another universe and that our universe expanding is like the growth of a living organism. Strange I know, I think it stems from one episode of Earthworm Jim where the universe was in a snow globe.

As for my beliefs about a god, I would say that a kind of god exist but not as most people invision. I see god more as a controlling force but one that doesn't have any direct control over our lives, the christian belief or that of most religions is that the universe revolves around us but in my opinion I don't think we're that significant. If we were all to vanish tommorow nothing would really change and there would still be need for a god to control the workings of the universe, I guess you could say god is kind of like gravity or any other invisible force, it's there but you can't see it. It just is.

Bladez, I just recently thought of the idea of the universe growing and decaying like a living organism. Another, much more daunting thing to think about is the theory that our universe is a quark in another universe, and every quark in this universe is another universe.

No, it's not strange at all.

When I was little I used to think that, maybe, our solar system was an atom and each solar system was in turn an atom. I thought that perhaps each galaxy was merely a molecule composing a cell and so on, so forth. I thought it was original until just last year when a friend of mine told me that he had often imagined the same thing. The more I spoke with others about philosophy and the such, the I realized how shared this idea was. Of course I never believed it myself, but it strangely ressembles the marble at the end of Men In Black.

I had this crazy idea about 9 years ago when I was studying 4th dimension theory, hypercubes etc.

When I make a shadow with my hand, I, a three dimensional being create a 2 dimensional object: a shadow. Is my shadow a separate universe?

If I am a 3 dimensional being, then what if I am merely sitting in the 3 dimensional shadow-universe cast by a 4 dimensional God? (would explain basic cross-cultural ideas of God's omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresensce)





~blood rose~



Edited By blood_rose on 1090088209

I dont think this a good topic cause there might be people that are kinda I dunno if this is the word obsessed with God and others that just dont believe in him so theres probably gonna be fighting but hey thats just me talking crazy. Personally I dont believe in Jesus but in God yeah though I tend to pray to the Godess a lot more and stuff

Well I do believe in a life after death because there is substantial evidence of it , however I'm not sure about a God .

He/she/it may exist but I don't worship any higher being .

My goodness. What a topic! I'm in bliss right now - intellectual people to discuss philosphy and religion with!!! :b

I just think how complex we are, go simpler, how complex organs are, cells are, molecules and atoms are! How they just know what to do and how to move and work. Then zoom out to the world. Nature. Think of the pattern on a pineapple!! The design of a sunflower! FINGERPRINTS! SNOWFLAKES!! They're all so different and perfectly shaped I can't see it all as fluke. Zoom out again to the sloar system. How the planets revolve so fitting in time and how the gravitational forces have to be just right. Which they are.
To think that it was all pure chance, pure luck is a hard thing for me to hold to. To think that we were created, however, along with the rest of the universe and space and time is just a nice idea. I find it just fits with what we see all around us.

I didn't start this thread to be offensive towards anyone's morals or beliefs, we're simply debating the possibility and probability that God does or does not exsist, not to start internet holy wars with others.

So please friends, let's play nicely, shall we?

Spiderman: thats what power wielding beings like Lilith, Blood_Rose, young Captain_Nevarre and Nachtzehrer are for, however I agree that the sheer chance of being made is quite in short disturbing like saying "sorry you are an accident" Theink of the sperm and the egg, the probability of that sperm and that egg, its kind of like that, however if some divine being made us, I can also accept that, being me I can handle it.

There are some things in this topic that offend me, but due to the moderaters I have no right to complain, although on that note I think the christian god could let me in to the shiny place in the sky for following me beliefs... in the end I'd willingly admit I was wrong, but I followed the belifs I laid down for myself.

I'm sorry if what I said is concidered back seat moding, but I'm really not keen on seeing this thread take a U-turn back to page 1.