Lets see if I can get my slightly incoherent thoughts down into words and whether I can make a decent discussion out of it...

This maybe about to sound like a "am I still a goth if I wear pink/do something frightfully ungothy?" topic but its not. I do wear pink and sometimes I do pick out blatantly un-goth clothes purely because I can think of an occassion to wear them and I like them . I recently wore very pale baby pink for the Royal Wedding (but then again, a corset and New Rocks also XD) and wore pink ribbons because I wanted to wear "love colours" and I think pink and love are colours often associated with love

No, no I'm pretty comfortable with my gothlitude (:P). Goth makes me feel very confident in who I am and that has been part of its long-term appeal to me. I am not afraid of labels...labels are a natural human thing. I think all people should be accumulating a LOT of labels- a label can only describe one aspect of you. I particularly like the Goth label (for myself) because although it is single label, it manages to cover a multitude of sins and nods towards other aspects of myself that might not be too obvious. For me, being a goth means that I like goth music and fashion, but means that I also have a fondness of metal and rock, and for other unusual forms of music, that I love reading and am also a writer and artist...and that I am a bat-shit crazy eccentric.

Does Goth actually mean all of those extra things I mentioned? No, strictly it only means goth fashion and music (arguably, but for the sake of arguement, lets skip over that particular arguement for now, for one its been discussed countless times). However, it does touch on some of the others. Goths tend to be artistic and creative. Goths tend to like other forms of music such as metal and rock that deviate from the mainstream. Goths tend to be a little odd. You don't have to be a goth to be any of those things or vice versa, but as I say, regarding myself personally, goth says a lot about me (at least, I feel) even if not directly.

So naturally, I have certain non-goth interests and the like, although as I am an oddball they probably aren't all that unbelievable. But I was thinking to myself at work today that sometimes I just don't want to be very goth- sometimes not at all- some days. I don't want to switch it off or stop being a goth altogether, oh no. I have said in the past that things like my outfits depend greatly on my mood at the time, so one day I maybe casual and wearing jeans and t-shirt, the other I maybe feeling fabulous and pull out something lacy and elaborate.

And once in a blue moon, I want to wear pastels and dress like a girly girl O.o This is both difficult and somewhat amusing as I only have one pink tank top XD

I am currently a little obsessed with the movie Black Swan, and I was thinking to myself today how sometimes I would like to dress in all those pale delicate colours that Natalie Portman's character (Nina) wears. Natalie Portman is one of those actresses I love anyway, and I think she's beautiful, and I found myself looking at some clothes at work and thinking very sometimes, rarely, I want to dress like that and be like that, because my mood suits that.

However I never want to be that way for very long, and it made me think of how the Nina character is very delicate and emotionally fragile, and that (and other aspects of the movie I won't get into because it may spoil the movie) made me think of how I think Goth is almost like...a mask of power for me sometimes.

By mask, I don't mean something that hides us, keeps us hidden from everyone. Maybe its more like how a superhero can be who he really wants to be in his costume and his normal persona is what he is protecting? Its funny actually; when I sit down to put my black makeup on in the morning, I feel I am both concealing something in myself and setting another thing free. I rarely feel naturally pretty without makeup (I have my days sometimes) so in some manner its natural to think that I am possibly concealing my percieved ugliness. I feel more confident with makeup on anyway, but its more than just make up.

I was once asked by a counsellor what makes me happy and one of the things I listed was being a goth. Sure there are downsides to being a goth (and problems that come with it) but it genuinely makes me happy. I feel I am being myself when I dress the way I do and I also feel pretty. I don't (usually) seek approval from other people when I dress goth and I am happy with who I am as a goth. Perhaps sometimes I cling to it too much because it makes me happy and I can be made sad easily.

But now, hypothetically, I'm wondering, is another reason why I dress this way is because it means that my shy Nina gets to hide safely while the more exuberant parts of my personality come to life? I certainly can be very shy and I suffer from anxiety...yet I find myself become more confident and lively in a crazy goth outfit.

Just thoughts that I am pondering on. I don't think I am truly concealing myself, but...perhaps I could be shielding the softer parts of myself that only wake up once in a while?

Does anyone else have absolutely crazy random thoughts like this?

Noooo I wasn't smoking anything

I DO understand where you're coming from, Blackavar. I quite often feel the same way, except that I don't think of goth as a mask of power - more as an envelope of comfort that I can curl up inside. I was very late discovering who I am, after years of trying to be something I wasn't, and finding the goth subculture felt like "coming home" for me. In short, it doesn't feel like a mask or shield, but a bubble of happiness that I carry around with me.

Like LegendGirl said it is a comfort thing for me. I feel odd wearing bright colours, as if people are staring at me (I know coming from the girl in big stompy boots and a leather jacket) but when I'm all dressed up I feel so much more confident. I know I look good and take any stares as a compliment to my outfit.

But also I know what it's like to want to break out and express another side of myself, not just the goth, during summer when I'm surfing I pretty much blend in with the other surfers at the beach and that is equally as much part of me as wearing black and being spooky.

I remember watching one of those awful make-under shows and the presenter said to the girl that by dressing the way she did she was hiding how intelligent and wonderful she was. How on earth are we supposed to show everyone how intelligent and wonderful we are, to show all facets of ourselves at once? Have our CV printed on a tshirt?

I completely agree with you, I see goth as being who and what I truly am... and if anything I see my attempting to be "normal" as pretending to be that which I am not. After seemingly endless years of wearing and doing the things that I thought I should, to finally be able to please myself instead of society kind of blew my mind... I didn't quite know where to begin with it all

I see the goth lifestyle not so much as a mask of power but as empowering.

BANNED!!!!!


I can kind of understand both points of view ("mask of strength" and comfort), when I'm dressed up (whatever that happened to mean at various points in my life) I did feel more comfortable, but also far more confidant, I'm also far more likely to be in a good mood, possibly because I associated any other clothing with mundane routines like (for example) work, and my other clothes I associate with freedom from those routines.

Personally I like the thought of being goth and wearing black lots. But it's my parents who keep me from going all out with the style so to please them I have to tone it down and in this way I feel rather chained. Though I know I should never have to try to please anyone else, unfortunately I have to conform sometimes. But when I'm dressed the most gothy I feel happy and free. I know that when I walk into church I don't look like everyone else and that makes me joyful. Though there are times when I don't want to get all dressed up in black. Like today for instance, I was wearing a purple shirt blue jeans and a hoodie. Honestly it was a normal outfit and it didn't really make me feel like myself. I prefer the dark clothes.

The only thing that really felt like me was the dark makeup and jewel hairband. Though it was nice to dress casual and not have to make sure every piece on my outfit was perfect.

Goth has never felt like an aesthetic to me. More like a frame of mind. It's also a combination of tribes that sacked Rome 1600 years ago. So take from that what you will I guess.

I think you will find that
A) As you grow older your parents will no longer have a say in how you dress, and so, gently, you can begin to travel as far into Goth as you wish, and
B) As you grow in Goth, you'll eventually accumulate enough "gothy" clothes that some will naturally become less formal and you'll be able to be comfortably goth even on off days/ laundry days. Old goths tends to have so many pairs of battered black trousers, t-shirts etc. that they always feel comfortable in what they wear.

I think just allowing yourself to be who you feel you truly are is a liberating, "powerful" feeling. There's so much bloody pressure to conform, expectations to live up to and it's really a tremendous thing to say "bollocks to all that" and allow full expression of yourself. We all still need to play the game and conform once in a while (eg. work) and it's those times when, personally, I feel... well, "weak", I guess. Like something's wrong... something's surpressed. Blah blah blah... anyways, no, I don't see goth itself as a mask of power but being who you TRULY feel you are removes personal shackles and there's definitely power in that.

I'm not an OldGothTM, but... you've been in my closet again! o_O

*Smug grin

Thanks, what you said really made sense. Can't believe I didn't think of those things before.

I think that, for me, it has the same effect as washing my face before leaving the house versus just rolling out of bed and going. When I'm all scrubbed up and look nice I feel great. It does a lot for my mood in general. If I feel that I look like hell, it will be reflected in my demeanor and attitude.

Nuuuu! Don't confiscate my Goth Cabal Club Card, pleeaaase! I promise to be a good wee goth from now on! *reads Lovecraft by candlelight wearing velvet and listening to Sisters of Mercy*

I like seeing some of the words being used...your "mask of strength", Legendgirl's "envelope of comfort". I like them all. Mask of power sort of just popped into my head randomly. But regardless of whether we describe empowerment or something more soothing, comforting, we're describing a very positive experience and feeling.

I also love it when I don't have to wear my work clothes, and if I do go to work dressed in something a bit prettier and/or gothier, then it tends to boost my mood. I hate my job so I guess its natural that I love it when I don't have to wear those clothes. I have noticed that if I'm going to be working with a stranger I will prepare my makeup to look harsher than normal, as I almost wear it with the hopes that a) I feel more confident and b) I scare them a little. That may sound stupid but I was bullied by a newbie about 4 years ago...I remember that my appearance was quite "soft" when she met me (my hair was curly) but she was quite put off by my goth attire and seemed almost scared of me during a social occassion when I was able to be myself. It sounds daft, but to prevent that from happening again, I prefer that my appearance look a little bit harsh- pale skin, dark hair, dark clothes with no colour relief in the form or jewellery or makeup.

Yesterday I was in a soft mood so I wore pale baby pink under a grey halter-neck hoody top, with black peddle-pushers, little pumps and grey armwarmers. The colours were much more subdued than normal, because I was feeling a little delicate. Its not often that I actually dress as softly as I feel but it felt right yesterday.

As I had explained in my introduction I tend to believe being Goth means something more than just fashion and music interests. Its like a feeling.

It has to do with a sense of Not Belonging, as if there is much more to you than the surrounding environment/society can cater to (perhaps even the world itself). So I would say the fashion and interests are a Biproduct of this more fundamental aspect of our psychie.

Openly displaying outward signs of that inner conflict or knowing things man was not meant to know, without necessarily tipping your hand or even having a firm grasp on those things yourself.

Basically you can be goth without showing it, but just because someone looks goth doesn't mean they really, truly are. Not necessarily something you have to be born with, but I guess alot of us have felt that way all our life.

That's why conformity sucks so bad - someone is trying to put you in their cage, make you the way they want you to be, when you are already well defined and pleased (?) with who you are.

(im NOT saying that Goth = Emo, not at all. There is a difference between that and what ive described, but yeah someone can be Emo and Goth at the same time)