Um.. Deathrock came originally from Punk. Deathrock started in California in the late 70s/early 80s with bands like 45 Grave and Christian Death. Batcave was from England (Alien Sex Fiend, Specimen, etc..) These two would later be called (by the media) "Goth".. later on in the 80s groups like Sisters of Mercy and others would change it all into "Gothic Rock".

Please read history of goth.

Death rock had nothing to do with 80s glam metal or metal at all. In fact, gothic music has nothing to do with metal. Anyone who tells you so has no idea what the subculture is about.

What? You seem confused. Metal has nothing to do with goth rock or deathrock and certainly not hair or glam metal. Gothrock and deathrock don't have anything in common with metal but are forms of goth music.

Woe be the day that Cinema Strange tours with slipknot (or somesuch)

- skimp

Idependantly, I've found some information that has convinced me that deathrock is a subgenre of goth rock. Christian Death founded deathrock, right? They were influenced by punk rock and glam rock like David Bowie. Those just happen to be the same genres that influenced Bauhaus!
Anyway, Rozz William's and Peter Murphy's vocals are pretty similar, despite not being directly influenced by each other (except that Murphy is obviously better):D

You bring up a good point D-Raven. The early goth bands (and even the later ones) drew their influences from rock bands.

No they didn't. They drew their influences from punk bands. There is a big difference. Goth grew out of the punk not rock. Punk was in direct opposition to rock in the mid to late 70s.

Again, please read A History of Goth. It was written by someone who was actually involved in the subculture back then.

(emphasis mine)

No. Deathrock originated in the late 70s with bands such as 45 Grave, Christian Death, Voodoo Church, and the like.

They are related to the Batcave music from England around the same time in that they both come from punk roots.

I've already read it long before this thread was made and you shouldn't go by one source anyway, I've seen legitimate sources contradict each other and they can be wrong sometimes. For example I have seen various versions of who coined goth first and which band. Some say it was Bauhaus, some say Joy Division. And these were written by people who were there at the time also so who do we believe?

I never even said goth grew out of punk, I said they drew influences from rock bands there's a difference. And other sources do say that there are goth bands that also have rock influences not just punk. A band can have various influences from various genres. Bauhaus for instance include David Bowie as an influence as do several other goth bands like Siouxsie and he is rock not punk. So yes they did come out of punk and/or have punk influences but a number of goth bands were influenced by rock bands too.

Deathrock came from and was influenced heavily by punk....it's that simple. Punk is a form of 'rock' music so let's not even quibble about that. Rock music has guitars....punk has guitars...,..deathrock,you guessed it, has guitars. Deathrock started in LA in the late 70's,early 80's, and Batcave during around the same time in England. The deathrock subculture spawned the goth subculture. In fact without the emergence of deathrock/Batcave there wouldn't be a damned subculture because that is where it originated from. Thank you.

I don`t consider early goth so elite as to have only been inspired by punk, it drew just as much from rock, psychedelia, and other various elements, not just one thing. Upon listening to Joy Division, I hear just as much Black Sabbath as I do the Sex Pistols.
Actually in some way, goth was again like an opposition to punk, like punk opposed rock, considering the generally happy and energetic vibe punk did tend to have, while goth tended towards the opposite.

Anyways, we can argue about genres back and forth till our arses are purple, but nowadays, the walls between genres have been torn down time and time again. People can say goth has nothing to do with metal, but 20 years ago people would be saying the same thing about classical music and techno. Nothing`s "pure" anymore.
I`m more interested in bands who strive for originality than "scenes".

That's the best way to go about it when listening to music. It's annoying when I recommend a band to my friends and they ask what genre it is and turn their nose up if it isn't metal or something.

In the 70s everything seemed to be a reaction to what came before it. Glam rock was a reaction to the hippie movement, punk was a reaction to glam rock, New Romantic was a reaction to punk with the kids who gew up with glam rock (like Boy George) bringing the glamour back. It happens all the time I guess, even with trends. For example in the UK bubblegum pop dominated the charts for years now all you hear on the radio is rock. It all comes and goes in cycles. Another example is goth - people got bored with all the SOM clones and EBM becamse popular in the clubs, now people are getting fed up with EBM and futurepop so deathrock and new goth bands are being played more in the clubs along with new clubs opening that won't play EBM, industrial etc at all.

Punk was actually a reaction to what we call "classic rock" or "classic heavy metal" particularly bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin, who by the late 70s were considered "dinosaurs".

Boy George was actually a punk before he was new wave. He hung out with Andi Sexgang a lot.

As for EBM and Nindustrial. Good riddance I say!

I'm sorry if this counts as back seat modding, but this conversation is veering off topic.
Anyway, I read History of Goth before starting this topic and have this to say; Just because someone was around at the start of a subculture doesn't neccassarily give them more authority. For example, I recently picked up a copy of Voltaire's (the singer, not the philosopher) book "What Is Goth?" for laughs. Now, he was involved with the subcultre from the beginning, however, he seemed to sociolise with the vampyre subsection of the subcultre. This, as a result influenced his view of the whole goth culture.

I myself am another example of this. I run in the Deathrock/romantigoth circles and have a few industrialy minded aquaintances, therefore I cant speak for other elements of the gothic community e.g. EBM or fetish dress.

Well, I sure as hell can`t call myself an "old schooler", but I do think I`ve been into it long enough to know it`s roots, but defining it`s roots doesn`t mean it should be closed off to other influences, and I do see a bit of a purist "goth has nothing to do with this or this..." attitude in this thread.

Hell, what I liked about the subculture in the first place was it`s ultraliberal and open-minded attitude, always willing to push the envelope and experiment, rather than the rather closed off tunnel vision mentality prevalent in the punk and metal scenes. If goth had just stuck to one sound, it would have stagnated and died off a long time ago.

And I guess if goth came from a genre that opposed Pink Floyd, that`s probably why so many purists hate Fields of the Nephilim, eh???

Everything I said I got from books like "Glam!" by Barney Hoskins. You tell him he's wrong as well as various magazine journalists. I've read many times that punk was a reaction to glam rock and that many New Romantics including Boy George were fans of glam rock, (BG was a very big fan of David Bowie and even camped on his lawn). Many bands have various influences from different genres not just one.

Like I've said before different sources say different things and you can't say one source is right and every other is wrong. The people who write these books and articles were there too not just whoever wrote the History of Goth page, like I gave in my example of Joy Division and Bauhaus being the first to be coined goth, different people will have experienced different things and no one is the be all and end all on the subject and you shouldn't take anything as gospel (if it's just written or spoken by someone). What I've been saying in this thread is what I have read and they are just as valid sources as anything else mentioned on here so far in that everything mentioned in this thread is based on what people have heard, seen or read. There are bound to be variations especially among different countries and regions in some things like the usage of the terms 'goth' and 'deathrock'.